Fun Discussions of TKD! Please have TKD finished before entering. (SPOILERS)

[Laurna]

Welcome to Rhemuth Castle! If you have finished reading all the way through to the last page of The King's Deryni, than please, enter the Kings withdrawing room and join in a fun topic of the latest Deryni escapades.

I think of this chapter in the Deryni series as a story for the fans- a story filled with the people we love and want to have a more intimate knowledge of how they became who they are. Notably in my mind is Kenneth and Llion. For me, they are the heroes of their generation.
There is much in the book and I'll admit a few things left out that I wish were there. But for the opening of this thread let us discuss what is printed in the pages. Perhaps we could start with a glimpse of all the side characters and the many geographical locals visited. Did you recognize some of them? Perhaps we can start out by pointing out just who is who and who they became in the years to come.
Notably, I welcomed a meeting with Ralson near the end of the book. Who was to become a trusted friend of Alaric and who loses his life in the very opening chapters of Deryni Rising.  Another character meet that left me with less joy was the knighting of Brice de Paor. There was a man who did not hold to his oaths made to his king. And of course there is Lendour, for me this is a special place. I loved meeting Zoe's children and the note that they are half Deryni too.

Tell me if a person or a place stood out to you.

[Evie]

Father Creoda.  He seemed to be Deryni-friendly, or at least Deryni-neutral, in TKD, yet IIRC he was on Loris's side of things in the Kelson-era books.  So I'd really love to know what happened in the years between Jorian's burning and Loris's ascendancy to change his opinions about the Deryni.

We also see Caitrin with her first husband, but I wish we could have at least caught a glimpse of her second-husband-to-be, even though this novel's timeline ends before that second marriage, given how much of a role that Sicard and their children play in the Histories of King Kelson trilogy.

I loved the brief glimpses of other kingdoms, though, and seeing more of the page and squire view of Rhemuth Castle life. (Including descriptions of their livery, which will help me in dressing my mini-Deryni!)  And all mentions of young Duncan, obviously. 

[revanne]

I loved Llion and was glad he got the girl of his dreams - I think Alaric is both grateful and gracious to him. I wonder what happened to him? Don't know whether I've got this right but I get a sense that human/Deryni relations have calmed down a bit but are getting worse through CM and TKD largely due to the De Nore influence. Maybe Alaric deliberately distances himself from his Morgan relatives - by now including Llion so as not to "contaminate them"?

I find Alaric a bit precocious but not unbelievably so for a child of his time and status but I got very cross with Brion - who I think treated him very badly. The "spoilt brat" gene in the Haldanes does pop up from time to time. Brion in memory (in DR and DC) is described as imposing and awe-inspiring, but he lets Jehana walk all over him.

Another thought came to mind - have they used merasha-spiked wine at all ordinations since the statues of Ramos or is it De Nore who re-introduces it as part as his vengeful paranoia and maybe others have crept through. If all priests with any Deryni blood had suffered like poor Jorian it would be hard to see why Duncan would even be considering a vocation?

And finally for now! -What does Bethune think she is doing in DC? I can understand why she tries to kill Alaric initially but she seem genuinely fond of Bronwyn - does she think she is doing Bronwyn a favour by giving her a man who loves her not knowing that Kevin really does and it's not a marriage of convenience or is she just a sad and confused old woman whose wits are totally addled by this time. I found the story very hard to read knowing what lay in store.

[Laurna]

I loved the brief glimpses of other kingdoms

Agreed, i loved going to Var Adony, the Hort of Orsal's winter palace, I loved the formalities there and the meeting of Sivorn, Duke Richard's future wife. (I do wonder how that comes about.) Of course, we all so meet Wencit there, oh scary man. So glad Se was there too, to save Alaric from himself.
I loved going to Bremagne, and enjoying the french-like country atmosphere of vineyards and easy going people. Although if they were so easy going, than how could Jehana have surrounded herself with so many people filled with hate and intolerance. Revanne, I agree with you, Brion should have been more instructing on the usefulness of magic to convince his queen to come to terms with it, rather than exile magic from her so she only grew to hate it more. If Brion would have succeeded than Deryni Rising would have been a very different story and we would not have had that great council meeting where young King Kelson exerts his authority.

Revanne you bring up an interesting note about the use of merasha-spiked wine at all ordinations. It would have effected many young men who may have only a touch of Deryni abilities like shields and the ability to know when someone was telling the truth. They might not even have a clue about what they are. It is a very scary thought that this sever punishment had been in use for two hundred years. Any man would be afraid of finalizing their vocations and rightly so.

[Shiral]

Re Brion and Jehana Well....I think Brion was crazy in love with this gorgeous creature thinking more with his hormones than his brain, only to find how difficult she could be when she WASN'T trying to be agreeable. And I think it took him by surprise that she WOULD actually leave the court and her husband the way she did. But true, he doesn't treat Alaric very well. On the other hand there are mentions in DR that Brion always had to balance his friendship with Alaric and Jehana's hostility toward him.  And Brion  was playing hooky in Corwyn when Kelson was born, so that can't have pleased Jehana much.

This book at last had the growing relationship between Alaric and Brion that I was hoping to see....and I wanted to see more of that and somewhat fewer mentions of Alaric's training routines.  I understand that training for knighthood is an all-absorbing thing and yes, we know Alaric is being rigorously trained with great discipline at court, but....this could have been made clear with fewer repetitions. I wanted to see Alaric and Brion sit down at the Cardounet board and really BOND over a game. I can only guess that their friendship grew stronger and deeper as Alaric matured, because the Brion of this book still feels a bit remote from that father and brother figure that Alaric mourns in Deryni Rising.

With regards to Alaric's training, since Alaric becomes the Kelson's champion, and has clear motivation for learning how to physically defend himself extremely well, his early prowess didn't bother me  so much.  Becoming an accomplished swordsman and knight in a "don't mess with me" way is really quite useful for an openly Deryni duke with few trusted friends at court.  We know in the first trilogy that Alaric grows up to be exactly that kind of warrior. So I found it belieavable that Alaric showed his capabilities early.

Melissa

[Jerusha]

And finally for now! -What does Bethune think she is doing in DC? I can understand why she tries to kill Alaric initially but she seem genuinely fond of Bronwyn - does she think she is doing Bronwyn a favour by giving her a man who loves her not knowing that Kevin really does and it's not a marriage of convenience or is she just a sad and confused old woman whose wits are totally addled by this time. I found the story very hard to read knowing what lay in store.

OK, I'm halfway through now, and probably shouldn't be reading this, but...

Maybe I read this chapter too quickly, but I honestly thought Bethane wanting to kill Alaric kind of came out of the blue.  In the original story (admittedly told from Bethane's point of view), you get some idea why.  But in TKD, one minute she's saying she can fix his arm and the next she's trying to poison him.  Did I miss something?

[Alkari]

Although if they were so easy going, than how could Jehana have surrounded herself with so many people filled with hate and intolerance.

If I recall correctly from later books, the explanation is that she was educated at a convent which was run by a very anti-Deryni abbess, and was heavily influenced by her.    I noticed Creoda too, but is seemed to me that in TDK he was not pro-Deryni as much as relatively neutral in his attitude, and of course, until de Nore got appointed as Archbishop and Primate, the virulent and open anti-Deryni hatred of the Church had died down slightly.  (His predecessor Paul Tollendal seemed more tolerant.)   Between TDK and the first Deryni trilogy, obviously Creoda was gradually influenced by both de Nore and then Loris.     

Nice to meet Derry's father, Sir Seamus O'Flynn, and also see the Howells of Eastmarch.   It was Ian Howell of course who took up with Charissa in DR and fought Alaric, and with the Eastmarch rebellion we also got that brief glimpse of Rhydon. 

I guess my absolutely overwhelming reaction to the book though is:  What HAPPENED to all Alaric's relatives in the 14 years between the end of TDK and the first of the Kelson books?!    The impression you get in the first Deryni trilogy is how very 'alone' Alaric is in terms of family, which adds to the tragedy of the deaths of Kevin and Bronwyn, and later of Duke Jared.   Yet at the end of TDK he has three half-sisters, all of whom are married, plus assorted 'cousins'/nephews and nieces, not to mention Zoe's Deryni husband in Lendour, Sir Jovett Chandos  (Alaric's brother in law).   Even in the four later King Kelson books, there is no mention of any of Alaric's relatives on the Morgan side. 

And of course - what happens to Sir Se Trelawney? He keeps appearing conveniently during TDK, so you would expect him to continue with Alaric's training once Alaric becomes duke, ensuring that King Brion has a properly trained Deryni protector.   So what is Sir Se's story between TDK and DR?   

[Evie]

I loved Llion and was glad he got the girl of his dreams - I think Alaric is both grateful and gracious to him. I wonder what happened to him? Don't know whether I've got this right but I get a sense that human/Deryni relations have calmed down a bit but are getting worse through CM and TKD largely due to the De Nore influence. Maybe Alaric deliberately distances himself from his Morgan relatives - by now including Llion so as not to "contaminate them"?

I think this is quite likely.  Also, remember that the absence of their mention in the Deryni Chronicles trilogy wouldn't necessarily mean these characters are no longer around, even if KK had written this trilogy first.  Since they were not directly involved in the events of that trilogy, they wouldn't have turned up in the story even if they all were living in Alaric's back yard by then.  Absence of mention does not necessarily mean death or distancing, although of course those are also possible.

I find Alaric a bit precocious but not unbelievably so for a child of his time and status but I got very cross with Brion - who I think treated him very badly. The "spoilt brat" gene in the Haldanes does pop up from time to time. Brion in memory (in DR and DC) is described as imposing and awe-inspiring, but he lets Jehana walk all over him.

Well, to be fair, it's a lot easier to be imposing and awe-inspiring as a mature forty-year-old King than as a young early-twenty-something who is still growing into full manhood, much less kingship.  Yes, fourteen is the legal age of manhood in Gwynedd, and Brion has had a few years to grow into his title, but he's also not had much time to learn how to navigate the perilous waters of relationship with a wife in this book.  And alas, although it's clear to me from the events in DR that Alaric eventually gets to spend enough time in Rhemuth's court to forge a close relationship with Kelson (which would not have happened had he been exiled to Coroth for the entirety of the time between Jehana's return to Rhemuth and Brion's death), I really don't see how Brion could have appeased his new queen doing anything other than what he did.  Like it or not, Brion had to consider his own wife's feelings above that of someone outside of his marriage, and he did so hoping that Jehana's attitude towards Alaric would mellow over time. Unfortunately it did not, but that was hardly something Brion could help short of taking the even more drastic step of tampering with her mind.  If nothing else, Brion needed an heir, and for that he needed his Queen to return home.  After Kelson's birth (and the subsequent loss of Kelson's sister), there seems to have been an estrangement between Brion and his queen, and I think that estrangement was caused or at least exacerbated by Alaric's return to Rhemuth court life. If anyone is being a spoiled brat in the relationship, I think it's Jehana, but from what we saw of her in later years, that's hardly a surprise in this book.  I see Brion as a confused newlywed husband trying to make the best of a difficult situation that his crockery-throwing brat of a bride has put him in, and still too in love with her to know how to put the best interests of his kingdom above the wishes of the woman who has captured his heart.

Another thought came to mind - have they used merasha-spiked wine at all ordinations since the statues of Ramos or is it De Nore who re-introduces it as part as his vengeful paranoia and maybe others have crept through. If all priests with any Deryni blood had suffered like poor Jorian it would be hard to see why Duncan would even be considering a vocation?

Would many Deryni have considered a vocation, though, in a kingdom where being a Deryni priest was punishable by death?  I suspect that the few who tried were dealt with more quietly before de Nore came along and decided to use Jorian as a public example, so it's possible that before that execution, people were in the dark about how such "infiltrators" were handled. But it's also possible that they knew what the penalty would be all along, and therefore there weren't many Deryni who even tried to get as far as ordination, but Jorian decided to take his chances anyway.  (I lean towards the latter explanation.  Otherwise, as secretive as the Arilans are about their Deryni lineage, it's unlikely that Denis would have risked being "outed" as a Deryni upon ordination, not just for the risk to himself but to Jamyl and his family as well. I know that the merasha laced wine wasn't public knowledge.  But if they suspected some sort of screening process was in place, Denis probably thought it would be something easily enough gotten around, to have dared become a seminarian in the first place.)

And finally for now! -What does Bethune think she is doing in DC? I can understand why she tries to kill Alaric initially but she seem genuinely fond of Bronwyn - does she think she is doing Bronwyn a favour by giving her a man who loves her not knowing that Kevin really does and it's not a marriage of convenience or is she just a sad and confused old woman whose wits are totally addled by this time. I found the story very hard to read knowing what lay in store.

I haven't read DC in a while, but did she even remember who Bronwyn was, or know that Bronwyn was the woman Rimmell was in love with and wanted the love spell for?  I tend to lean towards the theory that the old woman was a complete nutter by that time (or nearly so) and that she didn't harm Bronwyn and Kevin out of personal malice.

I loved the brief glimpses of other kingdoms

Agreed, i loved going to Var Adony, the Hort of Orsal's winter palace, I loved the formalities there and the meeting of Sivorn, Duke Richard's future wife. (I do wonder how that comes about.) Of course, we all so meet Wencit there, oh scary man. So glad Se was there too, to save Alaric from himself.

Yes, I'd dearly love to know how Sir Se always knows just when to appear.   As for Richard's marriage to Sivorn, I suspect it was a simple case of her being a marriageable, nubile princess just ripe for marriage when Richard eventually decided it was time to find a bride for himself and create a few Haldane cadet-line heirs.   

I loved going to Bremagne, and enjoying the french-like country atmosphere of vineyards and easy going people. Although if they were so easy going, than how could Jehana have surrounded herself with so many people filled with hate and intolerance.

They were easy-going at the Court of Bremagne, but if the nuns and chaplain from the convent where Jehana was educated are anything to go by, at that convent not so much.  And Jehana probably spent some years there getting her education, so it's little surprise that the devout young princess would surround herself with companions whom she grew up thinking of as moral role-models. I question her parents' good sense in picking out that convent to send their daughter off to for an education during her formative years, though maybe they thought that convent would serve as an antidote to the more permissive mores at their court.  After all, one doesn't want a morally permissive princess if one hopes to have her make a good marriage to someone like the King of Gwynedd.  Poor Xenia, on the other hand, experienced the consequences of being too morally permissive in the view of her society at her brother's more conservative court.  (It's ironic that Jehana's convent education turned her into an anti-Deryni fanatic and a detriment to poor Brion, whereas if poor Xenia had been sent to Arc-en-Ciel to be educated, she probably wouldn't have been in the wrong place at the wrong time for Sigismund to take advantage of. Not to mention they might have helped curb some of her willful arrogance at being a Haldane princess.)

Revanne, I agree with you, Brion should have been more instructing on the usefulness of magic to convince his queen to come to terms with it, rather than exile magic from her so she only grew to hate it more. If Brion would have succeeded than Deryni Rising would have been a very different story and we would not have had that great council meeting where young King Kelson exerts his authority.

I doubt very much that any efforts on Brion's part would have succeeded, though, since Jehana's fear was not based on unfamiliarity with magic but on a sincere belief that using it was inherently evil, and therefore if Brion had started trying to instruct Jehana on how "useful" it was, he would have only turned her away from it (and him) all the more quickly.  It wouldn't matter how useful a thing is if it comes from an evil source, and to Jehana's mind all magic is evil.  It wasn't until she couldn't reconcile the idea of magic=evil with something inherently good such as healing that Jehana was able to start recognizing that her whole paradigm was based on a false premise.  (And even so, I'm a little surprised that someone with Jehana's educational background didn't simply decide that even evil things can be used for ends that look deceptively good but that the appearance is deceiving somehow.)

Revanne you bring up an interesting note about the use of merasha-spiked wine at all ordinations. It would have effected many young men who may have only a touch of Deryni abilities like shields and the ability to know when someone was telling the truth. They might not even have a clue about what they are. It is a very scary thought that this sever punishment had been in use for two hundred years. Any man would be afraid of finalizing their vocations and rightly so.

This is why I suspect that merasha only works on Deryni (or humans with the Haldane-type of magic potential) if their powers have already been activated rather than if their powers lie undiscovered and dormant. Correct me if I've misremembered, but are blocked Deryni susceptible to merasha?  If not, then their descendants might be equally protected from merasha's effects, since they've had no training to fully activate their magical potential.

[revanne]

"I doubt very much that any efforts on Brion's part would have succeeded, though, since Jehana's fear was not based on unfamiliarity with magic but on a sincere belief that using it was inherently evil, and therefore if Brion had started trying to instruct Jehana on how "useful" it was, he would have only turned her away from it (and him) all the more quickly.  It wouldn't matter how useful a thing is if it comes from an evil source, and to Jehana's mind all magic is evil.  It wasn't until she couldn't reconcile the idea of magic=evil with something inherently good such as healing that Jehana was able to start recognizing that her whole paradigm was based on a false premise.  (And even so, I'm a little surprised that someone with Jehana's educational background didn't simply decide that even evil things can be used for ends that look deceptively good but that the appearance is deceiving somehow.)"

I totally accept that Brion is not thinking with his brain in TKD in relation to Jehana and there are some lovely glimpses of his relationship with Alaric as when he agrees that Llion should remain Alaric's knight in such a humorous and generous way. I guess  that after Kenneth dies (not good but he must be one of the few significant KK characters to die peacefully in bed) I got very protective of the young Alaric. So I am probably being unfair to Brion and he did get a raw deal with Jehana - given the rate of child mortality ( how many brothers did Brion lose as children, two or three?) just having the one heir by a woman who is obviously fertile must have created frustration and anxiety for him to say the least.  I have to say I find the sudden conversion of Jehana in KKB very implausible - unless it is simply that she has fallen totally in love with Barrett which then begs the question as to her feelings for Brion. Maybe she feels as much a victim as Xenia - her father certainly seems very keen to tempt Brion with one of his daughters.

Sir Se is wonderfully mysterious - his powers seem almost supernatural even in Deryni terms. But assuming that a lot if not most of the pre-restoration Deryni wisdom went with the Michelines into exile, and some of the Gabriellites made it out of St. Neots then the knowledge/skill of the Knights of the Anvil has had two hundred years to develop. Deryni in Gwynedd on the other hand have gone backward so that by the time of TKD there could be a skill gap of 3-400 years between Gwynedd Deryni and the Knights.

Re Bronwyn -in DC Rimmel shows Bethune the locket with Bronwen's picture in it but maybe that doesn't mean anything to her and it's just that she is a batty old lady with terrible consequences.

[Evie]

Re Bronwyn -in DC Rimmel shows Bethune the locket with Bronwen's picture in it but maybe that doesn't mean anything to her and it's just that she is a batty old lady with terrible consequences.

I'm not quite as much of a certifiable nutcase, but I'm pretty sure that if I met a five year old girl only one time, I would not recognize her grown-up image fifteen or more years later.  Actually, with my memory for faces, I might not even remember her fifteen days later! 

[Alkari]

Yes, I'd dearly love to know how Sir Se always knows just when to appear.

Sir Se is wonderfully mysterious - his powers seem almost supernatural even in Deryni terms. But assuming that a lot if not most of the pre-restoration Deryni wisdom went with the Michelines into exile, and some of the Gabriellites made it out of St. Neots then the knowledge/skill of the Knights of the Anvil has had two hundred years to develop. Deryni in Gwynedd on the other hand have gone backward so that by the time of TKD there could be a skill gap of 3-400 years between Gwynedd Deryni and the Knights. 

Yes, there is definitely a story to be told with regard to sir Se!       We know that Stefan Coram was responsible for some of the mysterious Camber appearances in the Deryni Chronicles, but who left that shiral crystal and was the mysterious figure on the beach near Coroth at the end of QFSC?   As Kelson and Dhugal realise, it points to the Anviller knights, but in KKB Kelson has other distractions.  Do Kelson or Alaric ever get to follow up on the Anviller aspect?

And I'm with you about that locket picture of Bronwyn, Evie!   Some people stay recognisable over the years, but others change completely.      At a school reunion about 2 months ago, we were looking at some old photos and trying to identify at least one or two of the people in each, so that they could be archived with some meaningful reference, even if just to the likely class(es).  Looking back some 40+ years and trying to put names to faces was hilarious.  Some we could definitely name, while others were a total mystery.  And in a few cases we just got to 'that has to be an X' where there had been lots of X family members over the years at the school.  Saying just which X it was, was a little more difficult, especially when all the Xs had strong family resemblances and the one in the photo was only 9 or 10 at the time 

[revanne]

  [/quote]
Yes, there is definitely a story to be told with regard to sir Se!       We know that Stefan Coram was responsible for some of the mysterious Camber appearances in the Deryni Chronicles, but who left that shiral crystal and was the mysterious figure on the beach near Coroth at the end of QFSC?   As Kelson and Dhugal realise, it points to the Anviller knights, but in KKB Kelson has other distractions.  Do Kelson or Alaric ever get to follow up on the Anviller aspect?
[/quote]

I'd wondered about the mysterious figure who wasn't Stefan Coram... I've never understood how the figure Duncan meets on the road back to Coroth knows what he had said to Alaric about the priesthood not meaning so much to him any more (one of the few silly remarks Duncan makes, or is he trying to convince himself) - it doesn't seem to be part of usual Deryni skills but does sound more like Sir Se.

Guess I was just trying to make some sense out of the Bronwyn tragedy but have to agree on reflection that remembering that far back is unlikely - some days I wouldn't recognise a picture of myself!

On a lighter note it's lovely to meet Sir Henry the mariner again (can't remember his surname) and really wanted a glimpse of the medieval equivalent of "Cardounet for dummies!"

[DesertRose]

And I'm with you about that locket picture of Bronwyn, Evie!   Some people stay recognisable over the years, but others change completely.

It does depend on a lot of things.  Some people's facial structure changes as they mature and then age, and then some people hardly change at all.  Some people's hair color changes dramatically as time marches on.  (For two examples, my oldest brother was blond as a child but his hair darkened to auburn as he grew up.  There's a family photo of him around 19 or 20 with fairly bright auburn hair, and nowadays in his mid-50s, it's darker auburn.  And my friend and neighbor was pale blond as recently as his early 20s, but now at 40 has hair almost as dark as mine--my avatar is actually me.)

I personally seem to be one of the ones who hardly change at all.  I'm online-friends with a woman who went to the same elementary school as I did,  and we were close friends back then (30 years and more ago) but we haven't seen each other in the flesh in 20+ years (partially because, these days, she lives in Finland [having married a Finnish guy] and I live in Florida, LOL).  I posted a recent photo of myself online, and she said she'd know me anywhere, never mind we were young adolescents the last time we saw each other in person.  She, on the other hand, from a recent photo, is barely recognizable as the girl with whom I spent so many recess and after-school times playing.

So it is believable to me that Bethane, having seen Bronwyn as a child of five on one (memorable for the kids, maybe not so much for Bethane) occasion, might fail to recognize a miniature portrait of the same girl all grown up and ready for marriage.

P.S.  No, I haven't read TKD yet, but I have to read the threads anyway as I'm about the only one with moderator permissions who has time to check the board every day, LOL.

[snuffybear]

I have to preface my comments with the caveat that the book focused on my least favorite character, Alaric Morgan, so my opinion is strongly tainted by that...

I never once thought I was reading about a young boy growing into young manhood, but rather a young adult. Yes, I get that he was something special, but I would like to have seen him act his age at some point. And losing his virginity at 11? Seriously?

That being said, I liked the ancillary characters, especially Kenneth and Llion. I was glad to see that Kenneth survived as long as he did. Llion played a role very similar to the role Alaric plays for Kelson when Kelson first becomes king.

I also enjoyed seeing Brion as a young man, and I was glad to see he wasn't a Kelson clone. I also enjoyed the hints of things to come-Nigel and Meraude, the Hort of Orsal's court, the captain of the boat, Duke Jared and his family. Like everyone else, I'm wondering about Alaric's Morgan relations. I always got the impression that Alaric was very lonely when Kelson first became king, and that he really didn't have anyone close to him except Duncan.

I do think this book was in need of a stronger editor. There was a lot of extraneous material that didn't add to the story. But I'm glad it's out of KK's system and we can maybe get a book about 948, or maybe get a glimpse of Kelson and Araxie. Actually, I would love to see a book that focuses on the Arilans.

Despite my criticisms, I did enjoy the book. I love any glimspe into Gwynedd!

Marion
(President, Denis Arilan Fan Club)

[bh1971]

I guess my absolutely overwhelming reaction to the book though is:  What HAPPENED to all Alaric's relatives in the 14 years between the end of TDK and the first of the Kelson books?!   

And of course - what happens to Sir Se Trelawney? He keeps appearing conveniently during TDK, so you would expect him to continue with Alaric's training once Alaric becomes duke, ensuring that King Brion has a properly trained Deryni protector.   So what is Sir Se's story between TDK and DR? 

I would say that most of them were dead. Kenneth lived to be 53, which for the middle ages is pretty long. Sir Se and Sir Llion would be about that age, also. Alaric didn't seem to be too close to his half-sisters, so it seems unlikely he would be any closer to their off springs. He barely spent any time with Brownyn or his cousins, his closest relatives. His closest friends seem to be his follow pages, who are not afraid of him.

The question is how did they die, Old age or something else?