Loose Ends

[DesertRose]

...The threat from outside, and the intermarriages noted in the Codex (Liam to wed a relative of Kelson's and either Rory or Payne to wed a relative of Liam's-I don't have my own copy of the Codex, and my recall is fuzzy at best)...

According to Codex, Liam marries Eirian, Nigel's and Meraude's daughter (thus Kelson's first cousin), and Payne marries Stanisha, Liam's sister.

DesertRose, the encyclopedia-of-trivia-brain.

[Elkhound]

What do Royalty and Rednecks have in common?  Marrying their cousins!

[derynifanatic64]

I've wondered whatever happened to the Michaeline's secret underground haven from "Camber of Culdi" that they used before deposing Imre.  Does it still exist?  Do the "Servants of Saint Camber" know about it?

[Raksha the Demon]

...The threat from outside, and the intermarriages noted in the Codex (Liam to wed a relative of Kelson's and either Rory or Payne to wed a relative of Liam's-I don't have my own copy of the Codex, and my recall is fuzzy at best)...

According to Codex, Liam marries Eirian, Nigel's and Meraude's daughter (thus Kelson's first cousin), and Payne marries Stanisha, Liam's sister.

DesertRose, the encyclopedia-of-trivia-brain.

I think that the Torenthi nobility, to say the least, might object to the marriage of Stanisha, who is a princess of Torenth, to the third son of the King of Gwynedd's uncle.  Payne won't even get Carthmoor.  Wouldn't that be considered sort of a social comedown for Stanisha, and cause some resentment among those who might already be less than thrilled by their new king's being so chummy with the King of Gwynedd after 200+ years of enmity?

[Jerusha]

Kelson creates Payne the Duke of Travlum, so Stanisha will have sufficient rank in Gwynedd.

[Evie]

Yes.  Payne may not be the direct Haldane heir, but he is still a Prince of the blood, which makes him a Royal Duke once he is created Duke of Travlum.  That should be a high enough lineage to satisfy any Princess unless she (or her relatives) refuse to consider any match but a King or future King for her.  And they'd surely be aware that there would nearly always be more princesses in the Eleven Kingdoms to marry off than available Kings or direct heirs in any given generation of royals.  Not every princess can expect to be a queen someday. (In the case of Richenda's parents, her mother was a princess but her father was a baron.  But she wasn't the heiress, plus it was quite likely a love match--either that, or Richenda's father must have done something to really get in good with the former King of Andelon!--so perhaps that could explain how a lowly baron could aspire to wed a princess.)  So hopefully the newer generation of Torenthi nobles are heartily sick of two centuries of war with Gwynedd and will be agreeable to a marriage alliance between the two kingdoms, even if some of the "old guard" would rather see hostilities continue due to old habits and hatreds.  Or perhaps just because maintaining the status quo helps preserve their own personal power, even though it's against what's best for the kingdom.

[Marko]

According to the Codex this would be the second time that a marriage between Gwynedd and Torenth would be used to try to bring peace between the two kingdoms.  In 1025 following the Battle of Killingford, Prince Jaron Haldane, Duke of Travlum, married Salentina Furstan-Festil, the daughter of Marek II, Duke of Tolan and Festilic pretender to Gwynedd.  Unfortunately she died in childbirth.  A daughter, Tamarina, survived.  Since the Codex has nothing about her other than her name in the listing for the Dukes of Travlum, she was probably in a convent prior to her father's passing in 1078.

[Laurna]

I am going to apologize for my fact listing here, but this is what I like best.

Under the heading of Marek II, we can read that Prince Marek II (born in 990) first married Diadema Countess Nesbitt. They had two sons and a daughter, only the second son survived to become Marek III Pretender of Gwynedd who was killed with his father at Killingford in 1025. In 1015, Marek II had secondly married Lady Pulcheria of Jutta and together they had one child, the Lady Salentina. After Killingford, Princess Salentina was the only surviving child of Marek II and "who was regarded by some few partisans as being the true Festilic pretender to the throne of Gwynedd while she was alive."  At the age of ten, Salentina was married to Prince Jaron Rhys Haldane Duke of Travelum; who would only be age 14 at the time of their betrothal in 1025. Salentina and Joran had a daughter, the Princess Tamarina in 1031, but then Salentina dies from child birth complications. The Torenthi  do not consider Tamarina to be their Pretender To Gwynedd because on her marring a Haldane, Salentina is said to have "no dynastic rights" and therefore for the Furstan-Fastils to find a Pretender to Gwynedd's crown, they go back several generations to Imre II's daughter, Princess Ariella, who had married Duchad Mor Count of Tigre to find four generations later, Hogan Furstan-Festil mac Tadhg, "The Marluk", and they make him the Pretender of Gwynedd. (They do not give up, do they!)

(As an aside, I am playing with Duchad Mor as one of the bad guys in the current fan-fic piece that I am writing, which may or may not ever see the light of day.)

Meanwhile, Duke Jaron lives until 1078 but has no other children. The Codex does state: "Princess Tamarina, whose issue is believed extinct,". Therefore, Tamarina must have at some point gotten married and had at least one child who-- almost like you said above, Marko--likely died before Duke Jaron in 1078; probably due to some horrible political intrigue. Since the word "believed" is used, perhaps the child was kidnapped and survived under another name.

Sorry if I bored you to tears with all those facts.

[Demercia]

Not bored at all Laurna, fascinated, and grateful for your hard work

[Elkhound]

Meanwhile, Duke Jaron lives until 1078 but has no other children. The Codex does state: "Princess Tamarina, whose issue is believed extinct,". Therefore, Tamarina must have at some point gotten married and had at least one child who-- almost like you said above, Marko--likely died before Duke Jaron in 1078; probably due to some horrible political intrigue. Since the word "believed" is used, perhaps the child was kidnapped and survived under another name.

Sorry if I bored you to tears with all those facts.

Kidnapped, or perhaps sent into hiding for his/her own protection?  What if a descendant were to come forward in the Kelson-era?