Heraldry in the Codex

[Laurna]

I am very impressed, these are wonderful.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet. Sorry I have not yet read this whole thread.I did notice that you have the Carthmoor arms a little to close to the Lairds of MorganHall arms.  The arms of the House of Morgan are: Sable, a double tressure or, argent Flory.  This is the arms of Kenneth Kai Morgan and the Lairds of Morgan hall before him. (Codex page 183)

Alaric Morgan was able to add the Gryphon to the Morgan arms due to his mother being the Heiress of Corwyn.
Dominic Buyenne du Joux was the first Duke of Corwyn after Mooryn was split. His was the green Gryphon, And I believe upon sable, which I read "In the King's Service". but I am not sure of the reference.

As for Carthmoor, I don't find an arms.  But Festil-the-First married the only surviving daughter of the King of Mooryn. Festil took Carthmoor for himself and gave Corywn to his right hand man Dominic. We know the House of Furstan is a leaping hart emblazoned in black on a roundel of silver on an orange field codex pg 101. I personally don't know if Festil changed his arms when he became King of Gwynedd. But I recall that he kept the leaping hart. When the Haldans regained Carthmoor, I am certain the arms would have changed as well. I believe Nigel Haldane is -Or lion rampant guardant gules with a bordure gules.(Sorry my heraldry knowledge is very limited)

Keep up the good work, I am enjoying this.

[Laurna]

I too have done a few shields for my own fan fiction stories. My favorite is Washburn Morgan.
Vert, dexter chief couped right hand argent, pierced in the palm with VIII pointed star vert,  Dragon passant wings elevated gules, double tressure fleury-counter-fleury or.


His Morgan blazon of -Double tressure flueury-counter-fleury or - will be with Wash forever, but he did loose the right of the Corywn inheritance through actions that were not of his making.  Therefor he adopted the Crimson dragon of his father's last vision to him on a background of corwyn green, and the Healers white hand do to his calling. It was fun making this one up.

[tmcd]

Sorry I have not yet read this whole thread.

I quoted from *The King's Deryni* a couple of pages back in this reply to give Nigel's arms, which I am assuming are the arms he later uses when he gets Carthmoor.

[Evie]

I too have done a few shields for my own fan fiction stories. My favorite is Washburn Morgan.
Vert, dexter chief couped right hand argent, pierced in the palm with VIII pointed star vert,  Dragon passant wings elevated gules, double tressure fleury-counter-fleury or.

The red on green breaks heraldic rules (a color shouldn't be directly on top of another color, just on a metal or a fur, so the charges will stand out better against the field), but then again, so does the Corwyn green gryphon on the black field, which KK did deliberately despite being very familiar with the no-color-on-color rule, quite likely to serve as a visual cue that our dear darkling duke Alaric is a bit of a rebel (which is like saying the Pope is a little bit Catholic), so I am guessing that rebellious streak runs true in Alaric's family, to the dismay of the Kingdom heralds!

(If anyone is wondering why heraldry normally doesn't allow color on color, try taping the Corwyn arms to a wall across the room and then compare it a copy with a white or yellow background behind the gryphon instead, viewed at equal distance. Which is easier to make out clearly as a gryphon segreant from across the room? Now imagine trying to find someone's shield on a field of battle, perhaps in less than ideal light conditions or across a crowded field. You would want it to be easy to spot and tell apart from something similar at a quick glance, not something you would have to strain to see clearly. Unless of course you are Alaric "I'm the Darkling Duke, so the rules don't apply to me" Morgan.

Now if Wash wanted something with a very similar look but more rules complying, that could easily be done by dividing that green field (perhaps diagonally, but horizontally or vertically would work also) so it is green with the white Healer Hand on one side of the divide and white with the red dragon on the other side. That way both the Healer Hand and the dragon stand out very clearly against their respective backgrounds, yet you still preserve the colors and symbolism of the original design, and even someone with red/green colorblindness would see the dragon's edges clearly from across the room.

[revanne]

I am really enjoying looking at these, Frère de Saint-Gabriel. 

I've with Nezz on not understanding much but I'm loving looking.

And destroying monarchies doesn't seemed to have worked well - as a royalist from over the pond you'd expect me to say that - but in terms of twentieth century European history I think you can reasonably argue the case.

[Laurna]

Washburn Morgan did not fall far from the tree, "that rebellious streak runs true in Alaric's family, to the dismay of the Kingdom heralds!" True indeed!

I gave it a little photo shopping, but I am not going to try and remove the green from behind the gold fluery-counter-fluery. Being as this is just a copy of the book cover and not my own drawing. But I have placed the diagonal and split the green and white. Not sure if the direction of the split is important. I did it this way due to the dragon wings. It is not a correct heraldry by any means. I think the kingdom's heralds will even be more dismayed.   but at least the color rules apply.

The red on white also reminds me of the House of Cynfyn the Earls of Lendour, Red rearing stage on a white with a checker border. (which again is likely against the rules.)

[revanne]

I really like that Laurna, both the hand and the dragon stand out equally well and you're right about the direction of the slant.

[Jerusha]

Wow!  Nicely done.

[Laurna]

I have to give thanks to Feyd for the White hand and Thank you to Jerusha for the Red Dragon, and if that is a mystery to anyone they need to Read "Fall from Grace"

[Nezz]

Oh, that split version works so much better for me!!!

[Frère de Saint-Gabriel]

Laurna, see Reply #39 earlier in the thread. tmcd makes that point that Nigel's personal arms that may reasonably be assumed to serve as the arms of Carthmoor as well (following the historical examples of the English duchies of the later medieval period), so long as the duchy is held by this cadet branch of the house of Haldane. Drawing on a passage in The King's Deryni, he emblazons Nigel Haldane's arms thus: Gules, a demi-lion erect crowned Or.

Here is my interpretation:

[Frère de Saint-Gabriel]

Evie, you may be interested to know that I've now revised the CoA of the Forcinn States.

The first image is a modest revision of the nominal suzerain of the Forcinn princes, the Hort of Orsal and Sovereign Prince of Tralia. The arms are emblazoned Seagreen, a morse resurgent Argent.

(In an RPG campaign on which I've been working for some time now, I've rendered the Hort's honorific titles as: His High Mightiness and Royal Highness, N., Hort of Orsal, Sovereign Prince of Tralia, and High Prince of the Forcinn States. "High Mightiness" is taken from the honorific used collectively for members of the Estates General of the Republic of the Netherlands prior to the dissolution of that noble republic by the invading armies of revolutionary France, and I've always liked the title! Seems fitting somehow for a puissant prince with a title otherwise unknown to "history.")

Abandoning my earlier scheme to make the arms of the principalities and their princely families who gained independence from the Duchy of Joux reflect the arms of the parent duchy, I've revised the CoA to be unique.

The CoA of the Duchy of Joux now reflects the foundational significance of the second duke, Reynard I, son of Duc Béraud Buyenne. Reynard "greatly expanded Joux's boundaries" (Codex, 139-40). So the new shield is charged with—a fox rampant!

The third image is the CoA of the Grand Duchy of Vézaire. The arms of the grand duke lean into the origins of the grand ducal family in a "former sheep farmer" (Codex, 256)—I thought that they might consider that a sort of poke-in-the-eye to the Duke of Joux. The escallops are a nod as well to the sea coast on which the lovely capital, Côte d'Alban, sits. The CoA is a little more complex, a little more fancy than Joux's—as befits as upstart family of former sheep farmers with something to prove!

[Laurna]

That is very interesting about the Demi Lion. I never would have thought of only the upper 2/3 of the lion shown. very distinctive.

[Frère de Saint-Gabriel]

That is very interesting about the Demi Lion. I never would have thought of only the upper 2/3 of the lion shown. very distinctive.

I'm interested to know whether tmcd thinks this an accurate interpretation of the blazon.

[Frère de Saint-Gabriel]

Rounding out the Forcinn States, the Principality of Logréine and the sovereign County of Thuria (Thurie)...

In the CoA of Logréine, the chief is charged with three barrels, denoting the "several varieties of ale, mead, wine, and other spirits" produced in the Principality. The boar statant recalls that Logréine produces pork from its central plain.

The CoA of Thuria (or Thurie) is a shield vert in the same sea green shade as the arms of Orsal and Tralia, charged with a castle representing the Kronburg, the fortress sitting at the heart of the county's capital town of the same name.