Two Kingdoms 56 - Black Flower

[tmcd]

Matilda isn't a clear example, because she would have been the first female monarch in English history, plus Fulk of Anjou as mentioned, and if the chronicles be believed (and that's a big IF, which is why I use the subjunctive mood), Henry I rammed the oath down the barons' throats and she was a jerk and a half when she was on top.

Henry VI didn't have trouble until his adulthood, and when it was Richard of York raising his troublesome head + lots of disasters hitting England in France.

In the instant case, with Charissa being Deryni, I'm surprised that she gets as much support in the north of Gwynedd as she does.

[DoctorM]

Matilda isn't a clear example, because she would have been the first female monarch in English history, plus Fulk of Anjou as mentioned, and if the chronicles be believed (and that's a big IF, which is why I use the subjunctive mood), Henry I rammed the oath down the barons' throats and she was a jerk and a half when she was on top.

Henry VI didn't have trouble until his adulthood, and when it was Richard of York raising his troublesome head + lots of disasters hitting England in France.

In the instant case, with Charissa being Deryni, I'm surprised that she gets as much support in the north of Gwynedd as she does.

I do need to look more, and look more closely, at what's happening in the Gwynedd north. The core of the Shadow Queen's power comes from her father's two duchies (Tolan and Marluk) and the allied county of Kulnan. I do want to look at how a lot of smaller lords in the north see her.

She's both Deryni and a woman, but Charissa as queen is also an alternative in the eyes of many northern lords to both Wencit and the possibility of direct, immediate domination by some local magnate (e.g., Bran Coris). Charissa is an unknown quantity, but the local lords see her as less likely to treat the north as conquered lands waiting to be plundered.

I will have to look at the politics of the north. There's a lot of balancing going on there, with lords scrambling to find ways to keep Wencit and the Torenthi out, maintain themselves against Marley/Eastmarch local dominance, and strengthen their own positions against southern rule. It's going to be a complicated dance.

[Evie]

I also tend to see the northern part of Gwynedd, especially Claibourne, as being more Border culture than lowlands culture, which means there may be less antipathy to the idea of Deryni there (aside from where it's been cultivated by anti-Deryni clerics and such), given that Borderers are already familiar with quasi-magical gifts such as the second sight, dowsing, and some rudimentary warding, so Deryni powers could be perceived as being only a 'supersized' version of those sorts of talents that Borderers are more likely to take for granted.

[revanne]

It's likely that Borderers may have their suspicion of Deryni but that will be less than their suspicion of Lowlanders. 

In parts of northern England during the time when Roman Catholicusm was outlawed local people may have regarded theur catholic neighbours slightly askance but they weren't about to betray them to Government busybodies from down south in London.

[DoctorM]

I also tend to see the northern part of Gwynedd, especially Claibourne, as being more Border culture than lowlands culture, which means there may be less antipathy to the idea of Deryni there (aside from where it's been cultivated by anti-Deryni clerics and such), given that Borderers are already familiar with quasi-magical gifts such as the second sight, dowsing, and some rudimentary warding, so Deryni powers could be perceived as being only a 'supersized' version of those sorts of talents that Borderers are more likely to take for granted.

That's an interesting thought. The Kheldish north is where legend holds that the early Deryni came to Gwynedd. (Okay, that's the legend set forth in the Codex; Christian made his scholarly reputation disputing that) I'm thinking that the north probably has a degree of suspicion about being ruled by southerners at a faraway Rhemuth, and that there may be differences in dialect, customary law, and local culture that would allow the Shadow Queen some political opportunities.

[DoctorM]

It's likely that Borderers may have their suspicion of Deryni but that will be less than their suspicion of Lowlanders.

In parts of northern England during the time when Roman Catholicusm was outlawed local people may have regarded theur catholic neighbours slightly askance but they weren't about to betray them to Government busybodies from down south in London.

I agree, Revanne. The Gwynedd north (up on the Kheldish Gulf, say) is going to be very different from the south in outlook and local culture. They're probably able to sense a certain degree of condescension from the south, and Rhemuth is a long way away.

Christian is now Charissa's new-made Prince of Kheldour, and I think that at some point he'll visit his new lands in the Kheldish Riding and take a look at the attitudes there.