The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

[17:59] * web56 () has joined #Deryni_Destinations
[17:59] * web56 is now known as KK
[17:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hullo KK  🙂
[18:00] <KK> Hello, all.
[18:00] <HoundMistress> Out taking pictures of my roof. Started a GoFundMe to help get the 20 yr old roof fixed. I don't think the insurance is going to pay for it all bcz it's a 20 yr old roof.
[18:00] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I might miss part of chat.
[18:00] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/479836521864888347/1373797414636490843/20250518_175901.jpg?ex=682bb80b&is=682a668b&hm=2931b578b3775160b56a5e931296f51d1408166baa94c6d6383886f183669198&;
[18:01] <HoundMistress> Hi KK and Evie.
[18:01] <~bynw> Hi KK
[18:01] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> It's Evie's li'l Moma! 🙂
[18:01] <HoundMistress> I didn't have any pcitures of the roof.
[18:01] <KK> Are you with the granddaughter, Evie?
[18:01] <HoundMistress> Oh, Evie!! Such a beautiful girl!!
[18:01] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Easier to take pictures of newborns than roofs
[18:01] <KK> HM, what happened to your roof?
[18:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yes, but hard for me to type one handed on phone
[18:02] <KK> Very true.
[18:04] <KK> True, Nezz.
[18:04] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> How's things with you this week, KK?
[18:05] * The_Bee (49443707@931FCCD0.65ADDF3B.C60DAD5D.IP) has joined #Deryni_Destinations
[18:06] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hullo Bee
[18:06] <~bynw> hi Bee
[18:06] <HoundMistress> LOL, STNEZZ
[18:06] <The_Bee> Hello to all!
[18:07] <KK> A good week. Got my knees xrayed, and there's no damage from my little misadventure on the way to LA. Continue physio, exercises, and patience.
[18:08] <HoundMistress> Well it's 20 yrs old, original roof. And we had some hail and bad wind in April. Has a lot of damage. Just waiting on the adjuster to say how much insur will pay
[18:08] <The_Bee> Nurse-cat Daphne doing her duty?
[18:09] <KK> Nurse Daphne is her usual loving self.
[18:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> It's good to have a nurse-kitty you can count on
[18:09] <HoundMistress> What's happenin'. What's the buzz? Tell me what's happenin.
[18:10] <KK> Bummer, HM. Was there actually a lot of damage from the storms? Hard winter for most of us.
[18:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> We had hail damage to our roof when it was about that old, and insurance still paid for most of the replacement aside from a small deductible
[18:10] <KK> That sounds hopeful, Evie.
[18:10] <HoundMistress> Hi, Bee.
[18:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I think we had to cover about $5K ourselves
[18:10] <HoundMistress> They said it just wasn't up to that weather anymore.
[18:11] <The_Bee> Hi Mistress of Hounds
[18:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Our HOA has been replacing all our roofs this week. It's been very loud around here.
[18:12] <The_Bee> Good for the HOA
[18:12] <HoundMistress> Did the HOA pay to replace them? Ours sure wouldn't. They just like to take our money and not give us anything for it.
[18:13] <KK> I have all kinds of road repaving machinery on the street outside my house--probably close to a dozen. They did a goodly stretch of road Thursday and Friday, toward the north, and will be at it for another couple of days. Repairing where they dug up last year to put in gas lines.
[18:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> HOA did pay, but it's in the contract that they cover the exteriors of the homes.
[18:14] <HoundMistress> Ug! You're going to be waked up early! They are building an Amazon whse less than a mile from my friend Gala's house. She gets up early...now.
[18:14] <The_Bee> Did the noise you mentioned come from the storms or the residents?
[18:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> I'm in a condo, so the HOA is actually the exterior maintenance group fundamentally. We've been building up reserves for new roofs ... but slowly, because assessments on the tenants are something of a burden after all. We do see the budgets for each year, so we know where the money is going.
[18:15] <HoundMistress> Good to hear, stnezz. My BFs noise? the contruction.
[18:15] <~bynw> expect the HOA fee to go up after the repairs to cover that cost though
[18:16] <~bynw> attend your board meetings, homeowners have that right
[18:16] <HoundMistress> Probably will. At least ours are reasonable but we still about 200 homes in our SD
[18:16] <HoundMistress> Or neighborhood, which is preferred now to subdivision
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I often do attend the HOA meetings
[18:16] <~bynw> good
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> After the roofs failed shortly after I moved in, yeah, assessments went up. The previous board hadn't saved much money, so it was an emergency to cover $70,000 x 4 roofs in about a year or two.
[18:17] <~bynw> i attend mine but i'm on the board
[18:18] <HoundMistress> So your knees are OK, KK?
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> KK, "Continue physio, exercises, and patience." just means continue the same routines as before? That's good.
[18:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Wow, slow week in chat. HM needs a new roof, KK is happy with her knees, Evie got a grandbab, anyone got anything else to report? TM? Bee?
[18:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Bynw?
[18:24] <KK> I got good news on Monday. My longtime tenant in the last of my rental properties called to let me know that she'd found another place to live; I'd given her a 2 year lease to give her time to find  one, and with a month to spare. She's been there for 16 years, and would have bought it-she loves it--but sadly she can't qualify for enough mortgage.
[18:24] <KK> But I'm of an age that I just  don't want to fuss with managing it--and I took a big hit last year for necessary tree work. Her rent no longer covers my expenses. Plus, Cameron wont have to hassle with selling when I'm gone. 
[18:24] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> My sister pointed out that the stock market is about where it was at the start of the year, so readjusting retirement savings might be good while it's stable.
[18:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> So that's a task for me to figure out, as a new retiree.
[18:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> KK, are you implying that you're going to sell it?
[18:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> KK, I didn't know you had renters. For another week or two, anyway.
[18:26] <The_Bee> My e-trike isstill out to get me.  it tipped over on my way to church again.  No damage to me this time.
[18:26] <HoundMistress> The retirement guy on Sundays before the church service says it's time to look at your distributions.
[18:26] <KK> I had a portfolio review last week with my finance guy, and he said I've come through with no damage to its value.  So thats a relief.
[18:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Hi Everyone!
[18:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Bee, Ugh!
[18:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hiya Jsha!
[18:27] <~bynw> as long as you didnt sale during the down turn, anyone should do alright as it comes back up. market fluxuation is good really
[18:27] <HoundMistress> My B & SIL took a hit when COVID struct but have recovered now.
[18:27] <~bynw> hi Jerusha
[18:27] <The_Bee> Hi Jerusha
[18:28] <HoundMistress> Hi, Jerusha
[18:28] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Lovely new granddaughter, Evie!
[18:28] <HoundMistress> Isn't she lovely? Isn't she beautiful? (S Wonder)
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Thanks!
[18:29] <KK> It's sold. Should be closing by the end of June, if all goes well. We went under contract 2 years ago, with the buyers being ok with the delay, and my realtor has check with them to be sure they're still going forward.
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I've had a finance guy for quite a few years now, but my husband is going to retire in just over a year, so we're going to start needing to dip into retirement soon.
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Patient buyers!
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Good news, KK
[18:29] <HoundMistress> They were really patient!
[18:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> KK, gratz on selling. I've got my old condo that I'm wanting to sell to the renters as a rent-to-own, but I don't know how to set up a contract for that. Or who to talk to to write one.
[18:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Real Estate lawyer, I suspect
[18:31] <~bynw> yeah i would go for an attorney who practices in real estate
[18:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> That sounds right, don't know why I didn't think about it before. 🙂
[18:33] <The_Bee> There is much talk around here for more housing at more affordable prices.
[18:34] <HoundMistress> Here, too, Bee. The Californians have moved here and destroyed our home market. They think nothing of paying $500,000 for a basic 2 story house.
[18:35] <~bynw> my scanner keeps freezing up. guess i will try another day
[18:35] <HoundMistress> Oh no bynw!
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Bynw, it's fried itself out for your sake. What a good li'l scanner.
[18:36] <~bynw> it's ancient (as far as electronics go). it's on my list to replace next year
[18:36] <HoundMistress> I'm still trying to get my new speakers to work. I suspect it's something in settings.
[18:36] <The_Bee> some towns waxed indignant when told they had  to build lower-rate housing near transit stations.
[18:37] <KK> Yes. And they're really in love with the house. And my tenant is moving back to the cottage that went with the big house, where she'd lived for 7 years until Scott and I renovated the house that's now being sold. She'd been in love with it the entire time she was in the cottage, and the new owners of the big house have done extensive work on it,
[18:37] <KK> starting with a new roof, so the cottage will be even better than where she lived in it before. They were doing it up to be an AirBnB, but were delighted when she asked if she could lease it. A win-win for everyone, except that she has to give up her home of 16 years. But she doesn't have far to move; the two properties are next to one another.
[18:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Wow, glad that has worked out
[18:38] <HoundMistress> That's good, KK.
[18:39] <HoundMistress> Bubbie buzzed through my lap to say "Hi"
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Hi Bubbie
[18:39] <~bynw> maybe i will have to see how much fedex office charges for use of their self-service scanning and just use their machines which are probably full duplex anyway. far better that my ancient one sided machine.
[18:39] <KK> I'm now playing catch-up on my several years of tax returns. Yuck!
[18:39] <The_Bee> Bubbie!
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> HIya Bubbie
[18:39] <The_Bee> Hi
[18:39] <~bynw> that's never fun KK
[18:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Taxes are a curse
[18:40] <HoundMistress> I haven't filed my last 2 yrs. I'm just not able to deal with them. Gotta find someone who can.
[18:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Oh dear
[18:41] <The_Bee> I' still not sure it I needed to file last year or this.
[18:43] <KK> You would have needed to file by April 15 for last year's income.
[18:43] <The_Bee> I got an extension both years.
[18:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Oh good
[18:44] <KK> But you still have to file, and it's not an indefinite extension.
[18:44] <~bynw> extentions don't stop interetest or pentalities if any are due... they just let you file later
[18:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> My dad is still doing our taxes, but I can't imagine he'll be able to do it much longer. He'll be 89 in a month.
[18:44] <HoundMistress> But you're OK if THEY owe YOU money. Not so much the other way around.
[18:45] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Good for your Dad, Nezz
[18:45] <The_Bee> It depends whether my income was below a certain amount.
[18:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> And the automatic extension is 6 months. I started using FreeTaxUSA, excellent on-line software at quite low cost (much less than Turbo Tax), but I don't have weirdnesses. I think a tax accountant is needed ASAP for anyone who hasn't filed in previous years.
[18:46] <~bynw> i use them too TM
[18:46] <The_Bee> I KNOW I wasn't getting a refund.
[18:47] <KK> Do you have income besides Social Security? If not, you should have a statement from SS that will tell you what to do.  They're talking about not having to pay tax on SS, but I'll believe that when I see it.
[18:47] <~bynw> a friend of mine has her birthday on april 16th. it's real easy to remember
[18:47] <HoundMistress> I wish they would stop taxing Soc Sec.
[18:48] <KK> There's hope that they may.
[18:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Oh, wouldn't that be lovely!
[18:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> I'll believe it when I see it
[18:48] <The_Bee> I have a pension; my SS wasn't taxable before.
[18:50] <KK> Ah, pension will be in their crosshairs. I'd guess that if your SS is low, you might not have to pay.
[18:50] <The_Bee> I hope
[18:50] <HoundMistress> No pension, no retirement. Have to work if I want to keep my house.
[18:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I never worked anyplace where I earned a pension, but I was able to make a halfway decent 401k before I had to retire. .
[18:51] <HoundMistress> Hopefully they are going to raise the amount you get from SS.
[18:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> (had to retire about 5 years before I'd planned)
[18:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> If they can swing it so that SS isn't taxed, then that's practically a 15-30% raise. 😄
[18:53] <HoundMistress> Yes, that would be a big improvement.
[18:53] <KK> I have to go hassle with the City about not renewing my Business License. I haven't yet found the W-2 from my royalty income last year. Can you believe that I have to buy a license to receive royalty payments for projects I wrote before I even knew there was a Staunton? Grrr.
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Egad!
[18:54] <HoundMistress> Taxes suck.
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Good  grief! That's rediculous!
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Good  grief! That's ridiculous!
[18:54] <KK> Yep.
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Can your agent or publisher send you another W-2?
[18:55] <KK> EEk, I have to run. Tonight is season finale for Call the Midwife. I do enjoy that show! See yu all next week!
[18:55] <HoundMistress> Have agood week!
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> A duplicate, I mean.
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> The one little bit of organization I keep up is a magazine holder bin. If any paper mail comes in that's tax-related, I manage to toss it in this holder. Come tax time, it saves me.
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Take care and enjoy the show!
[18:56] <The_Bee> ! Thanks for coming
[18:56] * KK steps onto her Portal, waves goodnight, and disappears in a shower of purple sparkles.
[18:56] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Nighters, KK
[18:56] <KK> Nghters!
[18:56] * KK () Quit (Quit: Client closed)

Cross-reference: please see https://rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,3364.msg32588

Cross-reference: now see https://rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,3364.msg32588

The scanned copies of Deryni Archives can be found here:


DERYNI ARCHIVES

The link in the original post comes back with a 404 error. Same with volumes 2 and 3.

Were the files removed or relocated where fixing the link is all that's needed?

Page 5

Post	Writer	Date	Events
60	Jerusha4	Sept 6	Brother Philip leads the group to the infirmary. Elspeth and Amy immediately begin working on the unconscious student. Edwin nabs the scrap of paper that was pinned to the boy, and thinks about his own Deryniness. He passes the note to Airich, who also realizes the boy is probably Deryni. Airich warns Amy about the boy's shields, but she's already used her Empathy on him. Bede shows Edwin and Airich a paper with a warning to Deryni he'd found earlier that day. Bede thinks about the Abbess at the Carbury infirmary, who'd Healed him some years ago. Airich tells the others about the boys in the courtyard.
61	Bynw	Sept 4	Another boy is brought in, but he didn't survive his beating. The warning pinned to his robes gave a warning that Human friends of the Deryni would face the same punishment.
62	Nezz	Sept 6	Airich thanks Edwin for his help in the brawl the other night. The dead boy is brought in. Elspeth informs Brother Philip that she will speak with Canon Damian. She brings Edwin and Bede with her. Airich tries to say comforting things to Amy but she wants action. She insists on knowing if he's Deryni and when he finally admits such, she demands he find out from the boy who did this to him.
63	Marc	Sept 6	Brother Philips brings Elspeth, Edwin, and Bede to the Canon's office through the large building. There is talk, and Bede has a plan which Edwin refuses to participate in.
64	Laurna	Sept 6	Elspeth asks the Canon to tell them what they are facing and how they can help. She sees the note that reads how Humans defending Deryni will meet the same fate. She is concerned this will cause panic among the students, and compares the students' likely fear to her own fear of being declared a witch. Edwin agrees. Damian tells her about how "the Deryni question" started becoming more heated than usual at the beginning of last term. Elspeth tells him the boys will search out the responsible parties, and meanwhile the girls will care for the injured.
65	Laurna5	Sept 6	Airich and Amy go into Rapport with the wounded boy and Amy discovers that she is indeed Deryni. The feeling reminds her of a man from years in her past, and Airich recognizes the man as "Wash." Airich communicates with the boy and discovers his name is Robert and the dead boy is Alfie. Airich sees where the boys were attacked and understands what they were doing, but Robert doesn't recognize any of them. Before they leave Rapport, Amy shows Airich the memory of her knight from years ago, and when they finally return to the world, he tells her that her knight is still alive.
66	Bynw	Sept 6	Brother Philip gives each of the five members of the group a warrant allowing them to investigate the assault and death of these students. An edict is also going out putting the city under martial law and forbidding anyone from carrying unsecured weapons or meeting in large groups.
67	Revanne	Sept 6	Edwin resists giving in to his fear of being caught and killed as a Deryni. He tells Elspeth that she should have shown more deference to Canon Damian and Elspeth tells him off.
68	Laurna	Sept 6	Elspeth is surprised to return and find Airich sitting close to Amy with his arm around her. Amy jumps up, crying about how "he lives." Airich is vague about what happened. Elspeth puts Amy onto a spare cot to sleep, just as Brother Philip brings them their warrantees.
69	Nezz4	Sept 6	Edwin is freaking out and asks the Canon why the Bishop picked them; the Canon says it's because of the women's medical background and the guys' willingness to get involved. Elspeth asks for lodgings for the group. Airich returns to the other room, mentioning that he will sit with Robert Thorne and that the other boy is Alfred Meadows: no one else knew these names. Damian tells Bede that his misdeeds of the past might be cleared up if he behaves. Edwin leaves to find them a boarding house. Elspeth asks Airich how he knows Robert's name, and he confesses to her his Deryniness. Robert wakes up then and Elspeth ministers to him. A novice brings a tray of food for them. Bede offers to begin searching for clues and Elspeth informs the men they are all going out in the morning.
70	Marc	Sept 6	Bede goes to see Muirea and concocts a plan to keep Jasper away from her. He disguises her as the ghost of her dead sister (Jasper's late wife) and she goes to Jasper's house and "haunts" him, warning him away from Muirea. He seems terrified and the plan seems to have worked.
71	Nezz6	Sept 6	Airich tells Amy the story of her knight, including his name and background. Hearing the story sets her heart free from him at last.
72	Revanne1	Sept 6	Edwin considers running home to Culdi with tail tucked between his legs. He confesses to Elspeth how scared he is. They finds a scrap of parchment in Robert's cotte and Edwin determines it's part of an initiation test and possibly part of the trap that the boys fell into.
73	Marc7	Sept 6	Airich loans Edwin his magical protective shirt. Bede swaps Edwin's knife for his own dagger. The three ride out towards a windmill, based on Edwin's clue. Bede and Edwin sound like they might be making friends with each other.
74	Bynw	Sept 6	A man prepares  himself to be coronated King of Gwynedd and end the false line of Deryni kings. Hundreds of people witness this event.

⁴ a Collaboration by everyone
⁵ a collaboration with Nezz
⁶ a collaboration with Laurna
⁷ a collaboration with Nezz and Revanne

Page 4

Post	Writer	Date	Events
45	Revanne2	Sept 4	Edwin arises early and thinks to return to his studies, but find Elspeth and Amy at breakfast, joins them, and begins copying their letter. He is professional offended at Elspeth's suggestion that he might share the contents of the letter with others. When finished, he takes the letter to Canon Damian.
46	Laurna	Sept 4	Amy is distressed by thoughts from her past, and Elspeth suggests she return to bed. Amy takes her up on this offer, but goes to check on their patient first.
47	Nezz	Sept 4	Amy helps the red-headed serving girl bringing Airich breakfast. She is surprised that he looks as well as he does and wonders if he is Deryni and has healed himself. She gives him medical advice and leaves. The serving girl thanks Airich for his rescue of her, and he gives her the knife he'd taken the night before.
48	Marc	Sept 4	Bede finds Muirea in the hall as she's leaving Airich's room. She tells him how she came to be in Grecotha and he offers to help her against Jasper. He then explores Grecotha and returns with a new shirt. He goes to Airich's room at Elspeth's suggestion to sit with the patient.
49	Jerusha	Sept 4	Edwin returns and reports that Canon Damian can't offer the women into the University library, but he can let them research in the cathedral library. The three of them head out at once.
50	Jerusha	Sept 4	A monk runs to Canon Damian, worried about Elspeth's eyes. Damian reassures the man Elspeth comes with good credentials. Meanwhile, Elspeth reassures Edwin she is perfectly capable of reading Latin and they spend the afternoon looking for talacil clues. Amy finds a cryptic note about dampening the effects of the cursed drug. The three go to dinner and dine upon meat rolls.
51	Nezz3	Sept 4	Elspeth thinks to check her patient and the three head up to his room. Airich, looking surprisingly healed, sees her eyes for the first time and falls over himself in surprise, and apologizes profusely. He swears on his sword to perform a task for her and she just wants to check the progress of his wounds.
52	Laurna3	Sept 4	Amy notices Airich's shirt on an embroidery hoop and recognizes it as extraordinary, even as she doesn't understand that it's magic. She asks if Airich is a healer, but he hands her his handkerchief and she is terrified by the voice she hears singing in her head. She drops the handkerchief.
53	Marc3	Sept 4	Bede keeps the handkerchief from falling onto his painting and asks about its healing properties. He is concerned it might have some magical hold on Amy but doesn't sense anything out of the ordinary. He hands it to Edwin to have a look.
54	Jerusha3	Sept 4	Elspeth demands everyone leave the room so she can inspect her patient in peace. Afterwards, she goes to Amy and apologizes and asks Amy to tell her what upset her.
55	Laurna	Sept 4	Amy tells Elspeth about how she heard the handkerchief singing, and is surprised Elspeth didn't hear it when she'd touched it. They wonder which girlfriend of the knight gave that to him.
56	Revanne	Sept 4	Edwin is thinking about earlier that day and the fact that he'd made confession to Canon Damian about the girl he'd messed about with over the summer. The canon had given Edwin the task of watching over Elspeth and Amy as penance, for as long as the girls stayed in Grecotha.
57	Marc	Sept 4	Bede gives Elspeth and Amy a false tale about his history with Muirea, asking if he can take her with them when they leave Grecotha, on account of Jasper's unwanted intentions toward her. Muirea passes along the coin Airich left for Elspeth as payment for her service before he checked out of the inn earlier that morning.
58	Nezz	Sept 4	Airich has stopped by the library one last time on his way out of Grecotha, but hadn't found the information he was looking over. He overhears some students talking in hushed tones about burning a Deryni at the stake. He spies on them, using Deryni powers, discovers that they're serious, and decides that it's time for him to get out of town. But then he thinks about the group he left behind at the inn and decides they deserve a warning.
59	Bynw	Sept 4	A Brother Philip fetches Elspeth and the rest of the group to Canon Damian. He brings them to the infirmary where lies a boy who has been beaten nearly beyond healing. His robes are pinned with a note referencing the Statutes of Ramos.

² posted by Nezz
³ collaboration by everyone

[18:18] * web54 () has joined #Deryni_Destinations
[18:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> He's showing as logged on but idle on Discord, which usually means AFK
[18:18] <The_Bee> HI KK1
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Hi Strippy
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hullo KK, Happy Mothers Day! 🙂
[18:19] <web54> Hello, all, and especially mothers.
[18:19] <HoundMistress> So Strippy is KK?
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> No, I think web54 is KK
[18:19] * web54 is now known as KK
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Strippy is not KK
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> No!
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Hi KK. Happy Mothers Day. Hope you have had a good day
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Web54, don't forget to change your nick
[18:20] <HoundMistress> Oh, web54 was KK, so do I know Strippy?
[18:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> He's fairly new to the forum
[18:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> He was at Zoom this month
[18:20] <HoundMistress> Ok, then no, I don't.
[18:20] <HoundMistress> I wanted to Zoom but the laptop was not cooperating
[18:21] <KK> It was excellent. I went to a mothers day fund raiser tea at the cat rescue where I got Daphne.
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> What was it doing?
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> That sounds like fun, KK
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I meant to zoom but fell asleep and din't wake up until it was too latw
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Oh nice. Hopefully the kitties appreciate it. 🙂
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I meant to zoom but fell asleep and din't wake up until it was too late
[18:21] <The_Bee> Did you meet other kitties and the fur-parents?
[18:22] <KK> It was. Couldn't go up to the cat room, because my knee is not up for it yet, but the tea was lovely.  I go most years.
[18:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> DS got me a Mother's Day card that was almost more like a mini-book, it had so many pages, and it was cat-themed with lots of cute kitty pictures. I think he knows me.  😄
[18:23] <KK> LOL. Ya think?
[18:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I suspect he does
[18:23] <HoundMistress> Your knee bothering you a lot from the fall, KK?
[18:24] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> We had a Mother's Day lunch with DS, DIL, DIL's mom, DH, and DH's mom.
[18:25] * ~bynw waves
[18:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> (DD is working a double today, since Mother's Day is typically the busiest day of the year where she works.)
[18:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Hi Bynw
[18:25] <HoundMistress> Hi, bynw
[18:25] <~bynw> just got home
[18:25] <The_Bee> Sad news her: My neighbor Michael'scat Mickey died last weekend.  Mickey used to spend a lot of time visiting me.
[18:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Hi Bynw
[18:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> @Evie.delacourt with the new arrival you will want to prqctice sitting on the floor and getting up as they always want you to play with them, on their level
[18:26] <HoundMistress> So sorry, Bee!
[18:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Awww, I'm sorry. I remember you talking about Mickey a lot.
[18:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah, I remember you talking about Mickey's visits even after Melantha died
[18:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Hi Bynw
[18:26] <The_Bee> His other cat,Stache, is very shy.
[18:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> @DerynifanK Working on it. At least my back is doing a lot better recently, so that might be possible
[18:26] <KK> No fall. Over-stressed right knee at Charlottesville airport on my way to LA. Stupid glider bench....  Continiung physio, but that was a month ago, and it's still not back to where it was. Going to see the orthopedist on Tuesday to see what's going on.
[18:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> @Bee sorry to hear about Mickey
[18:27] <HoundMistress> Hope it will settle back down!!
[18:27] <The_Bee> I'm glad Michael still has a cat.
[18:28] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I hope there is no serious problem with the knee.
[18:28] <KK> I sure hope so. Balance is even worse than it was
[18:28] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> 😦
[18:28] <HoundMistress> Are you using a cane or walker, KK?
[18:28] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Sorry about the balance KK
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Have to go do a quick job in the kitchen BRB
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I would say we could just bring a chair litter to Derynicon and carry you everywhere, but you do NOT want to rely on my lifting abilities!  😄
[18:30] <HoundMistress> LOL, Evie! nor mine!
[18:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I'm afraid it would be more like "Here, sit in this padded wheelbarrow and we'll try to push you around without it tumping over."  😉
[18:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Get one of the two wheeled versions
[18:30] <HoundMistress> LOL, Evie!
[18:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Evie! You said "tump"! Yay!!!!
[18:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Forty mumble something years of living in the South is rubbing off on me finally
[18:31] <KK> I'm using walker, have both 2 an 4-wheel versions.
[18:31] <HoundMistress> Just be steady!
[18:32] <The_Bee> any preference which?
[18:32] <HoundMistress> I liked my 4 wheeled ones.
[18:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> The 4 wheel is nice because the y usually have a seat and storage. Technically called a rollator
[18:33] <KK> Depends on where I'm going. 2-wheel version is easier to get it in and out of the car. It lives in the car.
[18:33] <HoundMistress> Yep, I miss that storage under the seat. Canes don't have storage. ;(
[18:34] <KK> Nope, and nowhere to put a purse.
[18:35] <KK> But you have to take the stuff out of the seat storage in order to fold it down.
[18:35] <The_Bee> I haven't used my e-trike since my accident two weeks ago.  It's in the hall downstairs.
[18:35] <HoundMistress> Yep, you do. I had people at work who became expert helping me with the walker.
[18:35] <KK> Yike, you had another accident? What happened?
[18:36] <HoundMistress> What happened Evie?
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Walkers are definitely better than canes for balance problems.
[18:37] <The_Bee> I didn't realize I was going over a curb.  It tipped over, andI had stitches.  It took me almmost seven hours to get home from the ER.
[18:37] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Nothing happened to me, Evie. Bee's the one who had the trike accident, if that's who you mean
[18:37] <KK> Definitely better.
[18:37] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Nothing happened to me, HM. Bee's the one who had the trike accident, if that's who you mean
[18:37] <The_Bee> I got a tetanus shot out of it.
[18:38] <HoundMistress> Yes, Bee.
[18:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Darn it, I just remembered I meant to look into seeing what boosters I need this weekend.
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I guess that goes on tomorrow's to-do list
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Since baby ejection day is Thursday
[18:39] <The_Bee> I still haven't gotten this year's flu or covid shots.
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Why do you need boosters? are you traveling?
[18:40] <KK> Just so she doesn't have to worry about them once the baby arrives.
[18:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> No, but my granddaughter is being born on Thursday, and if I'm going to be around her a lot in the next few months before she's old enough to be immunized against the usual childhood diseases, I'll want to be sure my own defenses are still strong.
[18:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Traveling, yes! Staunton, Virginia, baby!
[18:41] <HoundMistress> I'm planning to wear a mask while flying.
[18:41] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> When they go to day care or school kids become biological weapons. Bringing every bug in existence home.
[18:41] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Babies have natural immunity from Mom up to the age of 6 mos I think.
[18:41] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> At least going to VA I shouldn't need typhoid and cholera shots like I needed last time I planned a big trip.  😉
[18:41] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> We used to call that the Disease of the Week Club
[18:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> https://tenor.com/view/snoopdog-snoop-dancing-absolutely-loveit-gif-19986922
[18:42] <HoundMistress> People at work bring it in from their kids.
[18:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> My kids came down with everything under the sun when they were wee tykes.  One of the hazards of daycare, unfortunately.
[18:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> And that was even with them being breastfed. Natural immunity only goes so far.
[18:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> My DD2 teaches preschool and she calls trem walking germ factories
[18:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Same here. Except it was my wife who did the breastfeeding.
[18:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah, it usually works that way, Strippy.  😄
[18:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Usually
[18:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> My DD2 teaches preschool and she calls them walking germ factories
[18:44] <The_Bee> I was born before the measles vaccine was created.  I'n not sure what illnesses ai had in the 1940s.
[18:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Though I saw an amusing video this week about a new dad who cut holes in his t-shirt to fit the bottle nipples through because he wanted the bonding experience of feeding his baby at his chest too.  😄
[18:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Polio and TB, wasn't it?
[18:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> LOL
[18:45] <KK> Polio vaccine was in the early 1950s.
[18:45] <The_Bee> MMR--measles, mumps and rubella(?)
[18:45] <HoundMistress> MMR for me. Mumps, Measles and Rubella
[18:45] <HoundMistress> I think. Born in the 50s
[18:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I used to be mad that I got the type of polio vaccine that was administered in water instead of the kind that came in a sugar cube, even though by the time I knew about it at all, I couldn't recall having received it at all since I was an infant at the time.  But child me thought it was unfair I didn't get a sugar cube.  LOL!
[18:46] <The_Bee> I don't know if I got MMR or not.  Salk for polio. smallpox vac
[18:46] <HoundMistress> Smallpox with the multitined needle.
[18:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I'm pretty sure I remember getting the sugar cube when I was a wee one
[18:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah, I still have that faint smallpox vaccine scar on my shoulder.
[18:46] <KK> Salk vaccine was a shot.
[18:46] <The_Bee> I had to get the smallpox vax several times before it took.
[18:48] <KK> I got my smallpox vaccination on hip, so no noticible scar.
[18:48] <The_Bee> I once read that Dr. Salk chose not to patent his vaccine.  He wanted it free to everyone.
[18:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I saw that too
[18:48] <HoundMistress> I saw that, too, Bee. He wanted everyone to have it.
[18:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Not too many like him around these days
[18:49] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> I do have a book question that I'm sure has been discussed before if I can ask.
[18:49] <HoundMistress> The pharmaceutical companies wouldn't allow it now.
[18:49] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Sure, Strippy
[18:49] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Even if it's been asked before, that doesn't mean the same people are here for this time around
[18:49] <KK> Query away, Strippy!
[18:49] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> The pharmaceutical companies are only interest in profits and will do anything to get more.
[18:50] <HoundMistress> Exactly, DFK
[18:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> In Deryni Rising, Kelson and Charissa both speak incantations to cast spells. Whenhe creates the ward, words came unbidden to his lips. In The Quest for Saint Camber Conall says his teacher didn't believe in trite rhythms. Do the words really have a meaning?
[18:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Trite rhymes
[18:51] <HoundMistress> KK?
[18:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Evil to the rescue
[18:51] <KK> BRB. I think my Walmart delivery has just arrived.
[18:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Autocorrect sucks
[18:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> *Evie waits for the magistra to speak and refrains from throwing her hand in the air like Hermione Granger as a transfer student to the Schola from Hogwarts*
[18:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I always assumed they were necessary for the spell
[18:52] * ~bynw will give his 2 cents worth on that one but will wait for KK to answer first
[18:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I think in Deryni Magic it's said or implied that they are more of an aid to focus than a true necessity
[18:52] <HoundMistress> I think I read somewhere that they are often used but not necessary. It's intent that counts.
[18:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Though I'm sure KK can and will clarify if that's the case, being the world author
[18:53] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah.  Intent + Focus + Will
[18:54] <~bynw> ok Evie beat me to it. the "trite rhymes" are just a memory enhancer for the practitioner. they aren't needed.
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> Howdy!
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Heya Marc!
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Hi Marc
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Hi Marc!
[18:54] <HoundMistress> Hi, Marc
[18:54] <The_Bee> In Deryni Magic, KK pointed that in Evaines final spell, she simple stacked the ward cubes.
[18:54] <The_Bee> Hi Marc
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Thank you all for clarifying that for me.
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> One way to look at it is that I, as a rank amateur artist/colorist, could do a decent portrait of a cat if I had a line drawing to trace and could color in the lines.  But if I tried to paint one without the aids, it wouldn't be a very good likeness of a cat.  A true master, on the other hand, doesn't need those aids.
[18:56] <HoundMistress> Good Evie, good explanation
[18:57] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> So I think in magical/psionic terms, it's similar to that.  It's possible without the various aids to focusing, but just a lot harder unless you've got the training and skill.
[18:57] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I always assumed they were necessary for the practitioner to focus and produce the spellspell
[18:57] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> I would assume Charissa had loads of training
[18:58] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Probably.  But in that case there was also probably long tradition in play as well
[18:59] <The_Bee> Or maybe KK no longer felt the need for rhymed spells. =D
[18:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> @Evie.delacourt  and maybe not as effective.
[18:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> "Duel Arcane before a big audience for a kingdom? Better make it look good."
[18:59] <HoundMistress> Also it's very dramatic if you have onlookers, like at the Corination of Kelson
[18:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> If it's traditional to say an incantation in a formal ritual, then regardless of whether a certain practitioner really needs to do it or not, they might still choose to do so out of respect for that tradition
[19:00] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Whereas Conall was almost certainly less well trained than Charissa, but he also doesn't strike me as a particularly respectful sort.
[19:00] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> And Kelson is powerful enough to perform well in the duel either way
[19:01] <The_Bee> Like a traditional High Mass, for example
[19:01] <HoundMistress> And incantations come to hand for those "made" Dyrini. Darn can't spell Dyrenie
[19:01] <HoundMistress>  Deryni
[19:01] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> If I knew I'd be duel arcaning anytime soon, I'd prioritize working on voice projection and stage presence. The monsters can come second
[19:01] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah, I can see that, Bee. It's just a different level of formality
[19:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> https://tenor.com/view/phantom-of-the-opera-gerard-butler-mask-phantom-poto-gif-10303185884092263842
[19:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Conall had some training, but really didn't need it after the ceremony since the Haldane gifts came ready to use without  any training.
[19:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> Sounds like a metaphor for the divine right of kings or some such anointing
[19:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> True, but given that he was dueling against Kelson, maybe he could have used an extra focal aid or two!
[19:03] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> But Kelson had both Haldane and Deryni pwoers which made him stronger I would think
[19:03] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Hadn't thought of it like that, but in a way it could be seen like that
[19:03] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yup! Kelson had the edge in that regard
[19:03] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> But Kelson had both Haldane and Deryni powers which made him stronger I would think
[19:04] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I know that the make-Deryni don't *need* training, but I expect having additional training on top of that would be helpful.
[19:04] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I think Conall made the mistake of thinking Kelson was only drawing on his Haldane powers and forgot Kelson was also half Deryni
[19:04] <HoundMistress> Especially for control
[19:05] <The_Bee> I've felt that Conall would have been better off if his parents had sent him like in Carthmoor, where he could have learned to appreciate is own inheritance.  There was simply no useful place for him at Rhemuth Castle.
[19:05] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I would think if you have someone who is both Haldane and Deryni, the natural gifts would amplify the assumed gifts/instantaneous "training," and any additional training of the regular sort would likely also be faster.
[19:05] <The_Bee> live in Carthmoor
[19:06] <HoundMistress> Yep, Conall was a distant "spare"
[19:07] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> It would certainly have kept him from preying on the young ladies in Rhemuth, though I would pity the steward at Carthmoor having to supervise him, since I get the feeling Conall wouldn't have been as respectful to a "lesser" person being in authority over him.
[19:07] <The_Bee> And he had  to contend with both Keson the heir apparent and the more naturally athletic Dhugal.
[19:08] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> You mean in the years just before Brion's death?
[19:08] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Or maybe fostered for a while at another court.
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Hi Everyone
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> What would you say is kelson's best physical attribute? If he had to rely on something besides his words and magic, what would it be?
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Jerusha! You made it!
[19:09] <HoundMistress> Hi, Jerusha
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> Hi!
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> That might have helped. I think he wouldn't have disrespected another king
[19:09] <~bynw> Hi Jerusha
[19:09] <The_Bee> I think Conall would have learned respect if Nigel had given the steward permission to use corporal punishment.
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Hi Jerusha
[19:09] <The_Bee> Hi Jerusha
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Dinner and clean up took too long tonight
[19:09] <HoundMistress> Were they not allowed to punish Conall?
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> He (usually) shows a fair bit of wisdom for a lad his age
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> except when it comes to women...
[19:10] <HoundMistress> Kelson was brainier than Conall
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> With occasional lapses, but that's understandable given his youth and the pressures on him
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Or maybe his best physical attribute was Morgan
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> You spelled Duncan wrong, Jerusha
[19:10] <The_Bee> Did  we ever see any of Nigel's sons being punished?
[19:10] <HoundMistress> Alaric would have died for Kelson if he needed to
[19:11] <KK> I'm back. Had to put the frozen stuff in the freezer.
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yes, Nigel threatened to thrash them at one point for fighting with each other
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Yeah, we did see Conall get punished.
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Nigel got punished. Don't know that any others did anything wroung.
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> ACK
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> ACK
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> ACK
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> ACK
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> ACK
[19:11] <HoundMistress> But that just probably made Conall angrier
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> TM: Martian much?
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> CONALL got punished. I Dozed off for a bit and apparently I'm not fully rebooted.
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> Well, if Kelson were a physical threat, he could solve the stories himself, I guess 😆
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> Well, if Kelson were a physical threat, he could solve the stories all by himself, I guess 😆
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Conall was somewhat mollified once he realized his younger brothers were being little pains in the butt due to jealousy
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> It's better to share the load of useful attributes in an ensemble cast 👍
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> But yeah, he had to have his ego stroked before he could get his temper under control
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Nah, he was dead by that time. 😉
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> Sounds like this Connell guy needs a detention.
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Let's give KK a moment to catch up with the chat.  😄
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Marc, we gotta get you the Kelson trilogy ASAP
[19:13] <KK> I'm caught up.
[19:14] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> And now we pause for a word from our Queen of Stories
[19:14] <The_Bee> Conall may have felt, rightly or wrongly, that his father cared more about Kelson than his own son.
[19:15] <HoundMistress> Conall was only out for Conall and his dad & Kelson were in the way.
[19:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> "Kelson had both Haldane and Deryni powers which made him stronger" That wasn't stated that I remember. It's also not necessarily so, if everything he knew about Derynitarily he could already do Haldanely.
[19:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I think Conall was just having a bad case of cousin rivalry. It was one thing for Brion to be King--he was a grown man--but having his agemate suddenly be his overlord was a bit much for his competitiveness to handle.
[19:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Or Conall was just a bad egg.
[19:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Or Conall just had the author against him!
[19:16] <HoundMistress> LOL! Well, there have to be SOME villains.
[19:16] <The_Bee> Jasta elf/Sharon implied Conall's jealousy in her fanfic.
[19:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Every story needs villains!
[19:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I had a little more sympathy for Conall before I read the trilogy again more closely and saw what he was doing with his assumed powers, and then I was like "Nah, you deserve everything you got!"
[19:16] <KK> Yes, she did. Miss her.
[19:17] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Hrm, there can be "man against nature" stories, where there's not an animate villain ...
[19:17] <The_Bee> KK could have made either Conall or Kelson the villain.
[19:17] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah, but then I don't think Morgan and Duncan would be helping out the villain, so the story would sort of fall apart at that point
[19:17] <KK> True. But human struggles are far more interesting.
[19:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Conall may have realized what might have been if Kelson had  never been born
[19:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> If you check the old "Deryni Archives" magazine—#2 or #3, I think—KK akk but says that Conall is going to be a villain.
[19:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I really need to get my hands on those zines
[19:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> It's high fantasy, so there kind of has to be A Good Guy (yay) and A Bad Guy (boo hiss).
[19:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> A good chunk of QfSC turned into that, and it was certainly fun to read.
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <marc_du_temple> Amen
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> If you check the old "Deryni Archives" magazine—#2 or #3, I think—KK all but says that Conall is going to be a villain.
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Nezz: what"that"? Meaning " if Kelson had  never been born"
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I didn't think y'all had enough villains to boo, so in my last story I gave you four....  😄
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> ?
[19:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> And then there's Two Kingdoms ...
[19:20] <KK> Bynw, I wonder if it would be practiclalto post Deryni Archives on the website.
[19:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Dang, I thought I'd hit "Reply," sorry. I meant that part of QfSC was the Man-against-Nature plot. Not all of it, but a chunk.
[19:20] <The_Bee> I've fantasized an alternate realiy in which Conall is saved from villainy.
[19:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> ya want villains, or at least grey folks, ol' Doc M got ya covered!
[19:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Ooh! OOH!  YES!  DA on the forum!  *pants like an excited puppy*
[19:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I think we have 3 of the zines on the forum: that's where I read about that.
[19:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> Bynw has already done a bit of that?
[19:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> !!!
[19:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Where are they?
[19:21] <KK> I have a complete set, and they aren't doing anything sitting in a fie box.
[19:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> OOH!  Bring 'em to Derynicon
[19:21] <HoundMistress> Load 'em up
[19:21] <KK> GOOD IDEA!
[19:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Hint: do not try to do a Forum search for "deryni archives". It treats it as "OR" and hits every occurrence of "deryni" ...
[19:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Well now I need to buy a portable scanner...
[19:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Watch Evie speed read as if her salvation is depending on how fast she can get through the stack.  LOL!
[19:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Actually I take that back: my ipad is a portable scanner. 🙂
[19:23] * The_Bee46 (49443757@67BEAD99.65ADDF3B.C60DAD5D.IP) has joined #Deryni_Destinations
[19:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I was going to say, most phones/tablets can do that now
[19:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> There are a lot of stories there
[19:23] <~bynw> i have to get some time to scan more of Deryni Archives again
[19:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> At least if you have enough memory for that many pages
[19:23] <KK> There's some nice Deryni artwork, too.
[19:23] <The_Bee46> How hard would it be to post the zines on the website?
[19:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> All of the shields
[19:23] * The_Bee46 is now known as Bee
[19:23] <~bynw> some are already there
[19:24] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> More to read without the time.
[19:25] * The_Bee (49443757@67BEAD99.65ADDF3B.C60DAD5D.IP) Quit (Quit: Client closed)
[19:25] * Bee is suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder.
[19:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> KK, did you have heraldic devices created for the other Eleven Kingdoms?  We had a member a while back who created some based on the Codex descriptions on the Hort of Orsal's arms and a few others, and then just created a few more based on what was known of each kingdom, but I didn't know if you might have created official ones at some point.
[19:25] <~bynw> https://rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/board,74.0.html  here is where Vol 1,2, and 3 are located
[19:32] * lesliewilliams806 () has joined #Deryni_Destinations
[19:33] <~bynw> Hi lesliewilliams806
[19:33] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Hi Leslie
[19:33] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Leslie! You made it!
[19:33] <Bee> HI Lesliwilliams
[19:33] <~bynw> glad you could slip in
[19:33] * HoundMistress () Quit (Quit: Client closed)
[19:33] <lesliewilliams806> I'm so glad to find yall
[19:33] * HoundMistress () has joined #Deryni_Destinations
[19:34] <HoundMistress> Got dropped for some reason.
[19:34] <Bee> Welcome!
[19:34] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> KK, Leslie just barely joined the forum, like 10 minutes ago.
[19:35] <Bee> Hit the wrong key and you can get kicked out
[19:35] <HoundMistress> That was it, Bee
[19:37] <Bee> My traditional question for newbies, Leslie:  Who's your favorite Deryni-books character?
[19:37] <lesliewilliams806> Camber or Rhys
[19:37] <CambersGhost> [discord] <jerusha2> In am going to toddle off.  Have a good week, everyone!
[19:37] <lesliewilliams806> Have a great night
[19:37] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Good to see you, Jerusha
[19:37] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> cya Jerusha
[19:37] <Bee> bye Jerusha. Good week
[19:37] <~bynw> cya Jerusha
[19:37] <KK> Bye, Jerusha.
[19:37] <HoundMistress> Bye, Jerusha! Have a good week!
[19:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Ah, I think Rhys might be one of DesertRose's favorites also, so she'll be glad to meet you when she returns
[19:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I think everyone loves Rhys
[19:38] * ~bynw is going to have to reboot the chat server later so the security cert updates
[19:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I mean, what's not to love?
[19:38] <lesliewilliams806> I am a sucker for Healers and redheads
[19:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> He's one of my favorites from that century, though I'm a lot more familiar with Kelson's era
[19:38] <HoundMistress> Rhys is very lovable.
[19:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Hmm, jerusha2 and lesliewilliams806 not in the same chat at the same time ... suspicious ... 🙂
[19:39] <HoundMistress> He's my pre-Kelson character
[19:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> They were here at the same time...briefly....
[19:39] <lesliewilliams806> Just don't let him mix your drinks😂
[19:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> LOL
[19:39] <Bee> MY Deryni fave is Javan; Peregrine in the Adept books.
[19:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah, I loved Javan.  Darn you, KK!
[19:40] <KK> Peregy
[19:40] <HoundMistress> Can't remember the main character's name in the Adept series, but he is mine there.
[19:40] <~bynw> Javan would have been an awesome king had he been allowed to be one
[19:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> KK, does it give you great joy when your fans curse you? Because they love your characters so much and you were mean to them?
[19:40] <lesliewilliams806> Its been so long since I've gabbed with fellow Deryni fans. Trying to remember
[19:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> You either do diabolical things to my favorite characters, or you stick them in cassocks and make them off limits.  Why do I even love you?  😉
[19:40] <KK> Peregrin is also one of my favorites.
[19:41] <lesliewilliams806> Speaking of cassocks and off limits, does anyone remember Father Alvido in the TV series Shogun? YUm
[19:41] <~bynw> talking just the Adept ... Peregrin is the best
[19:41] * ~bynw has that on MP4
[19:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yeah, I should reread the Adept books. Last I checked, you hadn't stuffed Peregrin into a cassock, and even if you did, he'd probably be Anglican.  😄
[19:42] <KK> If my stories make you laugh or cry, then I've one my job. Sometimes I cry too.
[19:42] <HoundMistress> Yes, he just died. Richard Chamberlain
[19:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I was about to ask if that was Richard Chamberlain's character. I didn't see the series, but I do remember RC
[19:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> A few weeks ago, Laurna and I were working on a scene and we both ended up just bawling.
[19:42] <lesliewilliams806> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/2ub3icbX/image.png
[19:43] * KK () Quit (Quit: Client closed)
[19:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I got an error message, Leslie
[19:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> That gives an error on Discord side, LW.
[19:43] <lesliewilliams806> i'm sorry
[19:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Evie is with me on Discord
[19:43] * web41 () has joined #Deryni_Destinations
[19:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> But I can look up the character later
[19:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I thought that at first, but then I remembered that RC was a priest in the Thornbirds, but I don't think he waas in Shogun
[19:43] <~bynw> yeah that image didnt come across ...
[19:43] * web41 is now known as KK
[19:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Hi web41, whoever you are
[19:43] <~bynw> wb KK
[19:44] <KK> Sorry, I hit the wrong key.
[19:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> !
[19:44] <Bee> Rei KK
[19:44] <HoundMistress> I think you are right, stnezz. RC was a ships captain in Shogun.
[19:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> it happens
[19:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I think he was in both, Nezz, though I could be mistaken since I never saw either
[19:44] <lesliewilliams806> Hiya KK!
[19:44] <HoundMistress> He was in both
[19:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> I thought it was a joke about "hitting the wrong key"!
[19:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> He was in both, just not not a priest in Shogun. He was a sailor. Or something like that.
[19:44] <~bynw> nope dont hit the wrong key
[19:45] <Bee> I remember Richard Chamberlain as Doctor Kildare.
[19:45] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> *Evie looks all over her keyboard for the key that is labeled "Wrong"*
[19:45] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Can you press the Any key?
[19:45] * ~bynw has hit the wrong key many years ago and caused the server to go offline
[19:45] * CambersGhost [discord] <stnezz> points to the *Wrong Key* on the keyboard._ Don't press this one!
[19:45] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Ack!
[19:45] <lesliewilliams806> CHamberlain was Captain John Blackthorne
[19:45] <KK> RC was the priest in Thornbirds.
[19:45] <lesliewilliams806> He was great in that
[19:46] <lesliewilliams806> ***sob***
[19:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I used to have a keyboard that had an extraneous key that didn't do anything, apparently  just for decoration or symmetry.  I labeled mine as "Thermonuclear Detonator."
[19:46] <Bee> LOL!
[19:46] <HoundMistress> LOL, Evie!
[19:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmyyR22RLGk
[19:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Daffy: "NO NO NO NO NO Don't push the WED one! Never push the WED one!"
[19:46] <lesliewilliams806> the key of death lol
[19:47] * ~bynw presses the red candy like button
[19:47] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> https://tenor.com/view/junevi-gif-18033834710861070581 embed: https://tenor.com/view/junevi-gif-18033834710861070581
[19:47] <lesliewilliams806> I have a laptop keyboard that is so sensitive that I have to use dictation instead of typing
[19:47] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> That sounds like it would be some lethal key only a trained Deryni bard could play in
[19:47] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Bynw and I think alike. 🙂
[19:47] <Bee> Someone once said the spacebar should be labeled the ANY KEY.
[19:48] <~bynw> "Stimpy you fool!"
[19:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> "you fat, bloated eediot!"
[19:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> I added labels like "Ejector Seat" and "Machine Guns" to extra buttons in my car.
[19:48] <KK> I've got some key stickers that do that: like, launch arheads, spray oil, eject, and the like. I'm going to send them to Cameron.
[19:48] <~bynw> that's awesome
[19:49] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Years ago, I was typing at the desktop computer and my window kept disappearing. I thought the computer had a virus, but after a few moments I noticed the window just kept getting minimized for some reason. Eventually I noticed the cat paw that kept depressing the Esc key right before it happened, and found Gigi watching my reaction....
[19:49] <HoundMistress> I always wanted one of those dashboard ray gun sounds.
[19:49] <lesliewilliams806> Sounds like something M would design
[19:49] <KK> LOL. Many the cat....
[19:49] <HoundMistress> Pew, pew, pewpew.
[19:49] <KK> Yep.
[19:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Paw, paw, pawpaw
[19:50] <KK> That, too.
[19:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> I  Think I am going to head out as I have to do my exercises. Everyone have a good week.
[19:50] <HoundMistress> LOL!
[19:50] <HoundMistress> Have a good week, DFK
[19:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Good grief! Something has just somehow clambered onto my roof, and it sounds like a herd of bison is up there!
[19:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Have a great week, DFK 🙂
[19:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Bye, DFK
[19:50] <lesliewilliams806>  i'm sorry, th
[19:50] <~bynw> cya DFK
[19:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Evie, maybe you're  having an earthquake. 🙂
[19:51] <lesliewilliams806> I"m sorry, that's agent Q
[19:51] <lesliewilliams806> have a good night
[19:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> The oil spray?
[19:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Maybe, if it's an unusually loud and curiously non-moving one!
[19:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <derynifank> Nite all.
[19:51] <Bee> bye dfk
[19:51] <KK> I think I'll also head out. Busy days coming up.
[19:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> Yesssss
[19:51] <HoundMistress> I think I'm going to go and take Quanah outside on his leash which will make his day. Love y'all! Have a great week!!
[19:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Yay
[19:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> *grabby hands*
[19:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> night HM
[19:52] <Bee> Have good week, KK.  Thanks for coming.
[19:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Cya KK, have a wonderful week
[19:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <tm_9039> Critters can sound remarkably loud in theceiling, at least. I had mice but I would have sworn they were raccoons.
[19:52] <~bynw> have a good night and week KK
[19:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I'll stick around a bit longer.  I'm still full from lunch. LOL!
[19:52] <Bee> scritches to Daphne
[19:52] <HoundMistress> I'll hang out but taking Q out for a bit.
[19:52] * KK steps onto her Portal, waves goodnight, and disappears in a shower of purple sparkles.
[19:52] <lesliewilliams806> wonderful to chat, II
[19:52] <lesliewilliams806> KK
[19:53] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Purple sparkles!
[19:53] <KK> See you guys next week!
[19:53] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> cya KK 🙂
[19:53] <KK> Nighters.
[19:53] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> See you later!
[19:53] <CambersGhost> [discord] <strippy69> Yes! Thanks!
[19:53] <CambersGhost> [discord] <evie.delacourt> I"ll be a grandma by next weekend
[19:53] * KK () Quit (Quit: Client closed)

Amy wept on Muirea's shoulder, letting out her pent-up exhaustion and relief. "Airich is going to live, Muirea! He is even cured of his ailment. We did a ritual...it was working... but then it wasn't...Airich died, but then he didn't....  A... a healer came... healed him. A miracle has happened. Muirea, a miracle! I have so much I want to tell you and Elspeth, but I haven't had a chance to tell her. It's about the Healer who came. I trust him, but I can not say much more. So I've got to hold it in. I have laid my future in this Healer's hands; Airich's and my future together. I will tell you soon, I promise." Amy rambled on like a student who'd won a drinking contest; excited for the win, but dazed by the drink. Amy was indeed dizzy. Finally, she let go of Muirea and looked around, not finding what she sought. "Do you remember where Speth put her medicines? Wasn't her bag right here?" Amy looked around their small corner room. She stumbled over her own bedding and then sat down rather hard on the pallet, rubbing her forehead. The spell she had learned assisted with the dizziness, but not with the headache.

"It's in the other room, I'll get it." Muirea rushed out and back in seconds later. She plopped the leather satchel before Amy. But Muirea did not dare to even loosen the strings holding the flap closed. Too many mysteries were contained in those small vials, jars, and herbal packets. Life or death if not used with knowledge and respect. "You're certain you know what you're looking for?" she asked as Amy undid the ties and started pulling items out.

"Speth has taught me much about all of this. But I would not use most of it without Elspeth's guidance. Except for the one I need. It's a rolled parchment of crushed leaves with a green ribbon. Oh, here it is. Amy held up the roll to the candlelight to be sure of the writing on the outer parchment. "I don't suppose you brought home any ale from your shift. I don't want to go back to the kitchen to get some."

"Chef liked my work today, gave me a whole skin." Muirea smiled at Amy's side looks.

"He must like you."

"He always did. You know, he was the one who let me sleep in the kitchens when I escaped from that beast... from Jasper's house. The chef is married with a dozen kids, but he saw that I had a place to stay, and food to eat. He respected me like I was one of his daughters."

Muirea poured some of the ale into a cup and handed it to Amy. Amy then measured two pinches of the dried herbs and then tipped them over into the cup. She swirled it a little, then drank the whole cup of ale down. She closed her eyes and hummed for a moment, willing the drum-playing green squirrel to go to sleep.

"Amy, I want you to know how pleased I am that you and Sir Airich have one another. I wish we could all find such happiness." The girl years away from her home in Meara still had that Mearan friendship closeness in her blood. She hugged Amy, hoping to sooth away her friend's tired expression. When Amy started feeling a little better and looked up with a smile, Muirea finally asked,"Tell me, is Bede downstairs? He said he'd be here if he could, no?" Muirea tried to hide her concern when Amy's smile faded.

"I am sorry, but no. Bede would have come with me instead of Edwin," Amy assured Muirea, "but Edwin needed to talk to the Duggans. He is downstairs doing that now. I hope you are not mad at Bede. He seemed really upset about something, but he didn't say what."

Muirea stood and paced the room. "Eustace told me some of today's trouble. What a horror ye've all been through. Is Bede coming back here tonight? He and I have much that needs discussing. The two of us."

This time, Amy's smile returned, slightly lopsided and teasing. "I think that is what he wants, too. You know his eyes sparkle when he talks of you."  Amy squeezed Muirea's and then said more seriously.  "I was going to bring you back with us to the safe house where Bede is, very near to where Airich is sleeping and healing. But I think, now, that might not be best. See, we found the boy Aidan–you remember, Canon Damian's assistant–he was looking sickly so we brought him here. I want you to watch him tonight. Would you be willing to do that for me? I know Bede will get back here before dawn arrives. There is more going on that he will explain to you then."

Muirea looked disappointed but did not say anything.

"Here, help me carry the gear we need for tonight downstairs. Yes, that bag and that one, and those bags in the boys rooms, better included Edwin's book satchel, yeah, the singed one." Amy giggled, seeing the repairs Edwin had attempted after the satchel's harrowing in the fireplace days ago. "We can leave the rest here to get in the morning. I will explain as we carry these down to the kitchens."

Not too many hours ago, in The King's Arms, Eustace had stopped by to see Muirea. She had given him her usual amicable maid persona, strained nigh imperceptibly by the mutual knowledge that she was an informant first. "Ah'm just finishing up my shift, Eustace. What can I do for ye?"

((What Eustace remembers on ((2d6 3 + 1 = 4))) "Bede said to tell you that he might sound like he's lying, but he wants you to believe him anyway. And that he'll fight anyone on any terrain to get back to you, no matter the altitude."

That perplexed her terribly, furrowing her brows and flushing her cheeks. "When? What holds the man up?"

He related the rest of the events of the afternoon as he saw them, and she knew then that she may well be walking back to Duggan's alone. She had half a mind to demand Eustace go back with a message of her own, but chastised herself for even thinking of sending him back into such intrigue. Yes, it was out of her hands, now, and she did not like it, as she did not like walking alone, until she remembered halfway home that she had neglected to appreciate the good news: Jasper had met his match at last! Yes, her one-time savior, the kind Deryni knight, was in mortal peril, Bede was in over his head for sure this time, and the rest of her new friends fared little better. But the monster in her story was as good as slain! She could almost dance her way to the Duggan's doorstep. But still, she worried for them all. She decided she would pray for them, repetitiously, when she could.

In the spacious attic of the Duggan household, she knelt as many do in ritual, but merely praying with a child's training in religion. "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ... there are four ... five people I still care about. Now, they are so far away, being charmed by strange men I dinna ken. I am finally free from the murderer of my sister, but so alone. I dinna ken what is next for anyone. That is na gift of mine. I just want to see them all, soon. Including Airich. I'd blame meself, Laird, if he died in my city! And the kind girls. It's been so long since I've had friends like them. Who knew that Kelsonites could be so kind? The bookish one. He could do with less tension, sometimes. And Bede ..." she trailed off, there, feeling a memory of warmth on her lips. That was some un-Bede-like nonsense Eustace was saying, she thought. But she admitted to herself that she liked the sentiment, as she drifted off to sleep.

But sleep gave her less comfort than the waking world. She heard a trample of footsteps and shouted for Jasper to stay away from her.

"Shh ... it's me. It's me, Muirea!" Amy soothed worriedly. Muirea opened her eyes and lifted her tangled hair out of her vision, breathing a sigh of relief. It was indeed the other maid, her friend from Carbury. And she seemed possessed of a weariness beyond anything a single day could bestow. But she was here. Laughing, Muirea embraced her.