The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

This is the forty-ninth part of an AU construction about a Gwynedd where the duel at Kelson Haldane's coronation went very differently indeed. We are now nearly three years into the Gwynedd Wars-- Charissa's new kingdom at Valoret against the Haldanes in the south and the kingdom of Torenth in the east. This episode follows some time after "Dancers". As always, comments and suggestions are very much appreciated.


"No violence," Tendall is saying. "It didn't come to that. No one wanted it."

Duke Nigel looks up from the map table. Tendall is Sir Martin, and his brother is the Duke of Corwyn's hereditary chancellor. "No one wanted it yet," the duke says. "But it's coming. Four tries, four refusals. Rheljan's people are keeping their borders closed. They're serious about it."

The king is there listening. Duke Nigel and Nigel's son and heir Conall are there, and sitting there next to King Kelson is the new McLain bishop of Rhemuth, who's been the young king's advisor-in-chief most of the last year.

It's summer here in Gwynedd, and they're closeted in an upper room at Rhemuth Castle with the king. The duke of Corwyn's chancellor has sent his brother with news from the northeastern front. Corwyn is Lord General of the royal armies, and his messengers have been refused entry into Rheljan country. Royal orders that Baron Rheljan put his troops under Corwyn command and declare for the Haldane king have been rejected. Somewhere up in the Rheljan mountains today, the Witch Queen's Leopard banners are flying.

Duke Nigel's son Conall leans in over the map. "What if Duke Alaric went himself? What if he made the demand in person?"

Tendall and Duke Nigel look at one another. The duke shakes his head. "We can't spare him. Alaric Morgan is bringing up an army to Rhemuth. We'll be fighting across the Molling against the Shadow Queen. She's our first priority."

Tendall looks down the table at the king and grimaces. "Your Grace— Your Majesty —if I may. The war against Wencit of Torenth is popular in Rheljan. The Rheljan lords hate the Torenthi, and more than that...the Baron Rheljan has been winning fights. There's been no violence against any messengers so far, but Rheljan's people are inside Truvorsk, and they're not going to give that up. Even if His Grace of Corwyn could get to Rheljan country and bring your orders, they wouldn't listen."

"That's open treason," the bishop of Rhemuth says. "We need to begin a process to have Rheljan outlawed. We did that for Bran Coris back three years ago. We can do it for Rheljan now. And King Kelson can get a new baron created— a loyal one."

Duke Nigel is tracing a finger over the map. "Loyal. Would that be a McLain as the new baron, my lord bishop?"

"Uncle." The king cuts him off. "That isn't helping."

"This has all been a mistake. I said that from the start. Rheljan's a proud man; he always was. We could've brought him back into the fold. We could've used him against Wencit."

The king's face is set. "No. This is about clarity. It's about picking clear sides. Rheljan and too many others— they think they can fight their private wars and attend to their private ambitions and still call themselves loyal. They think they can pick and choose when and how to be loyal. That's been going on since my father was murdered, and I'm not having it. We need clarity. Everyone has to be very clear what side he's on. Everyone has to show it, too."

Duke Nigel draws in a breath. "Nephew," he says, "that's a dangerous position. Everyone who isn't openly on our side must be the enemy? That's not where we need to be."

"His Majesty is right about this," the bishop says. "We can't be left bargaining with lords and their personal ambitions. Everything that's happened since the Shadow Queen's coup shows what happens when loyalty is bargained for. Bran Coris changed coats for a duke's coronet. Baron Rheljan thinks he can fight a war alongside the Shadow Queen and still call himself loyal if he just doesn't say he's her ally. You might want to consult Revelations: those who aren't hot or cold, the ones who won't choose a side and stand by it, God will spit them out."

Duke Nigel shrugs. "We're fighting a war against the Shadow Queen to get Kelson's kingdom back. As soon as we're done there, we'll be fighting Wencit."

"And we'll be putting the kingdom back together." The king is looking back and forth from Duncan McLain to Duke Nigel.  "We have too many lords who think the king is just first among equals. There's a term for all that— overmighty subjects. The magnates and the barons have to know that the Crown comes from God. They have to know that there's one king in this kingdom, and that they're loyal only to him."

Nigel looks at Tendall. "My nephew knows all the most modern theories of kingship. And I agree that a king can't be at the mercy of his lords. You can't run a kingdom if every lord and every burgess gets to vote and bargain about every decision. Nonetheless, someone like Rheljan— we should've let him go on fighting Wencit. When the time comes, we have more to offer him than Charissa. We can get him out from under Bran Coris' thumb, too."

Conall looks across at the king and back to his father. "If the Baron did withdraw from Truvorsk and come join Duke Alaric against Charissa, wouldn't everyone think that we didn't care about Wencit? That we'd let Wencit have Truvorsk back and not care if he went into Gwynedd so long as we could fight the Witch Queen?"

Nigel nods. "You're not wrong. Not at all."

Down the table, Duncan McLain raises an eyebrow. He can't decide whether Nigel's son was directing a barb at his cousin the king. That's something to think about.

The king raps on the table. "Rheljan has to be made an example. All of them, all the lords up at Valoret— they have to learn a lesson. The Witch Queen murdered my father. He was their lord; they'd pledged themselves  to him. They can't back away from their oaths. If they want to keep their lands and their titles and their heads, they have to be loyal to me. I'm the king of Gwynedd; Charissa is a usurper and a murderer. If they're not standing under my banner, they're helping her. There's no room for private ambitions. I saw what happened as soon as my father died and Charissa had her coup— everyone jumping to see what he could get for himself, everyone forgetting about loyalty, the kingdom coming apart. I won't have that."

Kelson turns to the bishop. "Start the process for a trial in absentia. Duncan, draw up a proclamation of outlawry for Rheljan and his chief banners." He looks back at Duke Nigel. "I want Alaric hurried along.  I want us over the Molling. I want my father's killer destroyed and I want all Gwynedd out from under her tyranny. My father died three years and more ago. I'm not waiting another three years to avenge him. We're putting Gwynedd back together. We're doing it now."

Bishop of Rhemuth, not Archbishop?

Well, Duncan is still young. And the Church hasn't chosen a new Archbishop yet. I'm not sure that it would choose an openly Deryni cleric, given the political situation.

How would they know Duncan was Deryni? That came out in the main timeline only with the Incident at Saint Torin's, which presumably didn't happen in this timeline.

Hmmm... Are you sure? I was thinking that Duncan was the first Deryni priest ordained in a long, long time and that the Church wasn't altogether thrilled. Didn't Bad Things happen to the priest who ordained him?  Though I'll be the first to admit that my memory is long out of date.

Still...he's very young, and even with royal patronage, I'd think the top candidates would be older, more well-established men.

Duncan was the first ordained in years other than Denis Arilan (who might have been instrumental in helping Duncan avoid being detected by the merasha drugged wine used to screen Deryni out, or at least the Codex seems to hint at that), but that wasn't common knowledge as it would have resulted in him being burned at the stake for daring to defy the Statutes of Ramos by seeking ordination despite being Deryni. That was the reason Jorian was martyred and the fate Denis appears to have escaped only by divine intervention.

There might have been suspicions that Duncan might be Deryni because he was known to be Alaric's friend and distant cousin through their fathers, but their closer first cousin relationship through their mothers was secret to nearly everyone. Denis appears to have somehow found out or at least suspected earlier on, and as time went on in the series, it became more of a topic of speculation, but there was no public proof of Duncan being Deryni until he chose to reveal himself as such at Dhugal 's knighting in QFSC.

Of course, in an AU, that public knowledge might have come about sooner and/or in some other way, though if it was known prior to his ordination, then either conditions in the AU couldn't have been quite as dire at the time for Deryni or some reasonable backstory explanation needs to exist for how Duncan got away with it without being turned into a crispy critter. 😅

Conall delivers a barb at his cousin the king?  Well, my goodness, such a thought.  ;)

I defer to your knowledge on this. My memory is foggy here. Myself, I was just thinking that Duncan was young to be a full bishop, even with royal patronage, but that Kelson would certainly get him *something* episcopal. And since Rhemuth is only recently re-taken, the Church in the city was probably in need of a new bishop.

Quote from: Jerusha on September 14, 2024, 09:40:09 PMConall delivers a barb at his cousin the king?  Well, my goodness, such a thought.  ;)

I think there's some jealousy there to be seen, even if events haven't been at all like they were in the main timeline. It may also have to do with Conall having been knighted young and seen combat alongside his father-- he's feeling a bit experienced and grown-up.

(I was still writing this when Evie posted above, hence the overlap.)

Denis Arilan had a classmate, Jorian, who was Deryni and tried to get ordained just before him. But they put merasha in the wine of consecration, he passed out. He was burned at the stake in the presence of Denis, Alaric, and the assembled students of the seminary and others. (The King's Deryni, chs. 40-42) Denis Arilan got ordained because [spoilers]. ("The Priesting of Arilan", The Deryni Archives) He said, "I was the first, once". (The Quest for Saint Camber, ch. 6)

Archbishop de Nore ordained him (bishops ordain priests), assisted by Gorony. Kelson gave Gorony and Loris the world's tightest necklace at the end of The King's Justice; I don't know if de Nore got what was coming to him or not.

Brion knew Duncan was Deryni ... well, I don't know that that was explicitly stated, but Brion put Duncan as a participant in Kelson's power-assumption ritual, so I presume he had to have known. Duncan told Kelson in Deryni Rising, ch. 14, right after Alaric was tried for littering and creating a nuisance, with a palimpsest with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back. (I have dated myself again.)

Duncan's Deryniness became public in Deryni Checkmate, ch. 14, which I finished rereading last night. Duncan is trapped in the tunnels of Saint Torin with Alaric, Gorony, Warin, Warin's men, and a fire. Warin had ordered the outside door locked from the outside, and Alaric was merasha-ed to uselessness. Duncan unlocked it with his Powers. Gorony said, "Oh, my God, he's one of them! A Deryni serpent in the very bosom of the Church!"

Duncan's Deryniness was mentioned at the synod at Dhassa where he and Alaric were excommunicated, but I think it somehow didn't become public public until Duncan knighted Dhugal with the Deryni auras there. ((The Quest for Saint Camber, ch. 3) Possibly the bishops didn't fully believe Gorony, given the circumstances. Denis also said, after the aura biz, "It was one thing when they only thought you might be Deryni.", and it's implied that Duncan might have been the second, with "a few others, too" in "the past two or three years", and that he was the one to arrange at least the other Deryni priests (and maybe Duncan too?).

I don't remember a scene with Duncan's ordination, but I might just not remember.

ANYWAY, all this is a small detail. Duncan might be Auxiliary Bishop like Denis had been, but it leaves open who the Archbishop might be. Maybe the Curia is overly-scrupulous because so many sees have unrecognized bishops, so there's no quorum ... but then they'd be stuck forever, I think, unless some bishops from Charissa's zone show up. (In our Anglican Church, an archbishop is elected by the bishops of his province, but I gather than Gwynedd elects them by a vote of the whole Curia of all the bishops.)

"Myself, I was just thinking that Duncan was young to be a full bishop, even with royal patronage"

Duncan was auxiliary bishop of Rhemuth in The Quest for Saint Camber. That was when Kelson was knighted. He thinks about the age for knighthood, so he and Conall were about 18, so this would have been in 1124 or 1125, about a year after this.

I don't remember when Duncan got his bishophric -- must have been before the Mearan rebellion, because the first book was The Bishop's Heir.

Of more importance:  "Loyal. Would that be a McLain as the new baron, my lord bishop?"

Nigel sniping at Duncan and the McLains?! Implying at best undue enrichment, at worst corruption and endangering the crown?! I wish the Web still had blink and marquee tags! What the hell is going on here?!

Mind you, I occasionally thought, in the main timeline, that Kelson's support was dangerously narrow. From High Deryni on, the McLain-McArdry-Morgan-Coris-Derry nexus, and Nigel and his sons -- among the greatest lords, that leaves out only Ewan and his son. Conall on his own almost managed to bring down or cripple the regime. If any of those had turned into (in English history terms) a Duke of Buckingham (Charles I), a Woodville (Edward IV), a Despenser (Edward II) -- that is, if any of the mainstays got a reputation as greedy and/or incompetent and/or otherwise worthless ... well, Alaric and Duncan's reputation alone was one episcopal vote from getting Kelson excommunicated, Gwynedd interdicted, and the realm destroyed when Wencit was invading.

In that timeline, Kelson really needed to spread out his base, but Ralston, Colin, Sir Richard, Ian, and Bran end up often bad but all dead. He should be glomming onto the archbishops and sympathetic bishops like Wulfram, especially given the Deryni situation. The fellow marrying Araxie's sister is a bit of a start of spreading out. Kelson could cultivate knights like Javan tried to do -- pity that Sir Richard took a poisoned dagger for Alaric. General Gloddruth, earl of Eastmarch, whom he pried out of Jared's cold dead hands.

But I'm digressing. I'm still shocked at Nigel. Have Nigel and Duncan + Alaric started forming up into two factions, maybe?

It's not impossible that Duncan is acting more as a representative of Stefan Coram and his group. We don't know what's been happening.

Meanwhile Kelson has likely spent 3 years angry and frustrated - nothing seems to be going right for him. Throw in some advice that is very black and white, and I can see a young angry king leaning into it. Because shades of grey are not appealing in those circumstances.

And of course, from the timing... what's going on in Meara at the moment. This would be excellent timing for the House of Quinnell to make a return.

If Nigel's strategy is what they've been doing for the last 3 years, then a natural reaction is "[obscenity] this for a game of soldiers, let's try something different".

But Nigel might still be correct. I'm thinking his opinion is that Kelson has a lousy hand to play, so you push things as far as you can (not that far, really) without going too far.

Yes-- I think we do have hints of factions forming. There's nothing more natural: each clan, family, affinity is very much aware off where it stands on the ladder of status, influence, patronage, and wealth. Nigel is going to be aware of the McLains and the Cassan clan. Up north, Burchard de Varlan is sizing up the Marley clan. (And I suspect that many of the northern / pro-Charissa lords have their own views of new men/outsiders like both Aurelian and Christian.)

I think that for Kelson, these last three years have been infuriating. The Haldanes have re-taken Rhemuth, yes, and Alaric Morgan is returning to the wars. But he hasn't yet been able to avenge Brion, and he's well aware that the political structure in Gwynedd was never as stable as he'd thought. I think he believes  that to win this war, he'll need to assert some kind of divine right/absolutist ideology...and that will be harder than he thought.

Based on the way you write about them, I think you favor Charissa over Kelson and the Haldanes. I don't think she will ever take all of Gwynedd but I'm not sure two kingdoms could coexist without constant warfare. Don't at this time see favorable outcomes for either side but I do think I detect some bias here.
And it took 49 chapters for you to write about them at all, not sure but I guess you wanted a story from Charissa's POV

I am thinking about the endgame here. The possibilities:

1. Charissa wins, governs all Gwynedd, still has to fight Wencit.

2. Kelson wins, governs all Gwynedd, still has to fight Wencit.

3. Stalemate. Gwynedd is divided in two for the foreseeable future. At some point-- in the future --there's a reunion (via perhaps a royal marriage) a generation or two after the characters have passed away.

4. Chaos. The Eleven Kingdoms turn into a snake pit for a generation or two and some new power arises.

I'm not at all sure how things should go.

Not gonna lie, I'm a little torn here. I'm mean, I'm totally pro-Kelson, but you write such a compelling Charissa, I'd almost hate to see her downfall unless she can have some equally compelling, epic end. I can also imagine some sort of resolution via marriage alliance, especially since children can be betrothed and are considered adults at 14, so I can imagine them having a Royal Council carefully selected from both sides to help guide them in their earlier years. The most likely problem I see is that Kelson and Charissa are unlikely to die at the same time, but maybe it could be like a Ferdinand and Isabel style marriage alliance where the young Queen-to-be is the sovereign of her half and the young King-to-be is heir to his, and they co-rule Gwynedd with the understanding that the kingdoms will be reunited under their firstborn son. (Of course that would likely require some rewriting of one or both Kingdom's inheritance laws, but I can see that being incorporated into the peace agreement.)

Even if neither Kelson or Charissa are willing to go for this solution, I can see their kids eventually getting fed up and proposing a marriage alliance to settle the matter, then dealing with any surviving parent(s) as required if they aren't already on board with the idea.

Chaos for a generation is also a possibility, true, and it's not like there isn't ample real world precedent, but I think after too much chaos, the common folk might start to get fed up and wonder if there might not be other systems of government out there to explore, or your original kingdom might end up becoming just a bunch of splintered factions, independent city-states, and war lords.... 😅

Quote from: DerynifanK on September 19, 2024, 06:23:12 PMBased on the way you write about them, I think you favor Charissa over Kelson and the Haldanes.

Of course he favors Charissa! That's like saying I show a little bit of bias in my stories towards Duncan McLain! 🥰😂

I don't see either 1 or 2 happening - it's more likely that Wencit would sweep in and finish the victor.

I am thinking that a mixture of 3 & 4 is quite plausible - Gwynedd is divided but stability is impossible to attain, and Wencit's heir is an ever present threat, so that both Charissa and Kelson's heirs decide to marry and reunite the two Kingdoms.

Or one does not have an heir and cedes their right to the other's heir.

A bit like what happened in the 1150's when stalemate of the Matilda/Stephen conflict was resolved after Stephen's son died by deciding that Stephen should continue to reign as King but be succeeded by Matilda's son who became Henry II.

I would imagine in any case that the Mearan separatists take their chance for regained independence- it would be fun to speculate a Mearan conquering Gwynedd but size and geography are against it.

I have loved this different perspective Dr M.

I once wrote (but didn't use) a scene where a particularly clueless envoy from one of the Connaiti states (Fenwick?) told Charissa that if only she were single, she could solve the problem of the Gwynedd Wars simply by marrying Kelson. Christian's first (totally deadpan) comment was, "And you put the body...where?" Charissa's own comment was that she was never one to be struck speechless, but this was an exception...

You know, Revanne, I like the comparison to Stephen and Matilda. One of my favorite historical novels is Cecilia Holland's "The Earl"  ("Hammer for Princes" in the UK edition) about a Norman early dealing with the Stephen v. Matilda wars.

I don't know that, it sounds like a good read.

I'm really enjoying this too, it's good to see things from a different perspective.  I'd go for option 3 with a bit of 4, though tbh I think it more likely that Kelson's half would degenerate into chaos than Charissa's.

Quote from: Demercia on September 21, 2024, 12:59:39 PMI'm really enjoying this too, it's good to see things from a different perspective.  I'd go for option 3 with a bit of 4, though tbh I think it more likely that Kelson's half would degenerate into chaos than Charissa's.

Which suggests that a couple of generations down the line, there would be pressure for the country to reunite under Charissa's descendants.

Quote from: revanne on September 21, 2024, 12:13:31 PMI don't know that, it sounds like a good read.

Revanne-- it's very good, as is Cecilia Holland's "Kings in Winter" and "The Firedrake". Her early novels are wonderful.

Sadly I think the third option is the most likely. I don't think either of the two contenders is able to beat the other. And of course Wencit is watching ready to take advantage of a defeat on either side. I hope they can work out a way to coexist peacefully for the sake of their people. There was so much death and destruction during the Stephen/Matilda conflicts until they literally wore each other out.Hope that can be avoided and their heirs might solve it through royal marriage. Peace would be a blessing for both sides,

Quote from: Demercia on September 21, 2024, 12:59:39 PMI'm really enjoying this too, it's good to see things from a different perspective.  I'd go for option 3 with a bit of 4, though tbh I think it more likely that Kelson's half would degenerate into chaos than Charissa's.

Why do you think chaos more likely for Kelson?

Quote from: DerynifanK on September 21, 2024, 05:06:43 PM

Quote from: Demercia on September 21, 2024, 12:59:39 PMI'm really enjoying this too, it's good to see things from a different perspective.  I'd go for option 3 with a bit of 4, though tbh I think it more likely that Kelson's half would degenerate into chaos than Charissa's.

Why do you think chaos more likely for Kelson?

Because he's currently very young and therefore has less life experience and probably more of a tendency to react quickly and prematurely rather than take time to fully think through his decisions before acting (since after all he is still an adolescent whose brain is still forming), and while in the canonical universe some of that inexperience and impulsiveness is tempered by having older and wiser advisors who for the most part work well together despite occasional differences (such as the friction between Alaric and Arilan), in this AU Kelson's supporters appear to have some factions that could end up being a weakness Charissa could exploit. Or even if she doesn't, I think Kelson could find himself in a game of tug-of-war between two or more supporting factions, each trying to convince the King that their (conflicting) advice is the best.

Evie-- I think you're quite right.

He has 3 years of war under his belt and while things have not always gone as we would have liked, I think he might surprise people? Even Evie, if given the chance.

Quote from: DerynifanK on September 21, 2024, 09:44:30 PMHe has 3 years of war under his belt and while things have not always gone as we would have liked, I think he might surprise people? Even Evie, if given the chance.

I'll grant that both 14-year-old and 17-year-old canonical Kelson was extremely mature for a lad his age, especially compared to modern-day teens who grow up a lot more infantilized than their medieval counterparts did. In this AU, three years of leading his army in war would make some difference in terms of battle experience, absolutely. However, none of that changes the fact that human anatomy and the amount of time it takes to reach full brain development has not changed over the centuries, and a lack of life experience plus not yet having reached his full cognitive potential yet (due to the brain continuing to physically change during those late teen years to somewhere in the mid-20s) would still have some impact that I think would be measurable compared to his rival who began this conflict as a fully developed adult. (Not that Charissa lacks any handicaps of her own. She is a woman who aspires to be sovereign in a male-dominated society where that isn't the norm and which is biased against that, so for her to take and retain power would be a constant struggle. But at least it's not one she is trying to take on at age 14 or even 17!)

While medieval people didn't really have a concept of adolescence in the way that we understand it, as a separate life stage from childhood or adulthood, they still recognized that what they considered young adulthood (basically the late teens to mid-20s when the capacity to move from concrete to abstract thinking is becoming more developed, through all the changes that begin with puberty and continue for several years until the body reaches full growth, etc.), was a period when these fledgling adults still often tended to be rash, impulsive, hot-tempered, and sometimes unable to predict long-term consequences of actions in a way that someone with more life experience could more easily foresee. They called the attainment of that more mature, settled stage of adulthood "becoming sad and wise," although the meaning of those words has changed slightly over the years (sad did not mean sorrowful in this sense, but something more like sober or thoughtful). So teens and young-20s "young adults" tended to still be in their training years, whether as apprentices or journeyman, or in the case of royalty, the hope was that they would still be the heir at that age and still in training to take on their full royal responsibilities a little later in life. Marriage among the nobility might happen at this age due to dynastic reasons, but among the common folk it was less likely at least for the young men to marry until they reached the end of this stage of life or at least were much closer to the end of it than the beginning. Why? They had to be fully trained in some trade or skill that would allow them to support a wife and family, and they had to be mature enough mentally as well as physically to take care of them. And that age of being "sad and wise" enough to become head of your own household tended to be around the mid-20s, around the same time as the human body becomes physiologically fully adult. This is not a coincidence at all. (Women did tend to marry a little younger, but in that case that was because they had usually attained enough growth to bear children and to gain whatever education they might have access to by their age of first marriage, and needing to gain full physical maturity first as less of an issue.)

I am not saying that AU Kelson would be incapable of being a mature, thoughtful, and capable King, just that he would be doing his best to be those things while still trying to overcome the handicap of not having yet reached the stage of development that would allow him to be these things to the best of his potential. He has not yet reached his full potential. Hopefully he will live to reach it.

And of course there are many people who reach their full growth and brain development and still act immaturely and rashly, and don't display much common sense. I suspect if the canonical Prince Conall had lived long enough, he would have turned out to be that sort of man, somehow permanently stuck in petulant young adolescence despite being in a fully developed man's body. But at least in that case, it wouldn't be because his neurons are still trying to form the pathways that would allow a higher level of critical thinking.

Quote from: Evie on September 21, 2024, 05:47:30 PM

Quote from: DerynifanK on September 21, 2024, 05:06:43 PM

Quote from: Demercia on September 21, 2024, 12:59:39 PMI'm really enjoying this too, it's good to see things from a different perspective.  I'd go for option 3 with a bit of 4, though tbh I think it more likely that Kelson's half would degenerate into chaos than Charissa's.

Why do you think chaos more likely for Kelson?

Because he's currently very young and therefore has less life experience and probably more of a tendency to react quickly and prematurely rather than take time to fully think through his decisions before acting (since after all he is still an adolescent whose brain is still forming), and while in the canonical universe some of that inexperience and impulsiveness is tempered by having older and wiser advisors who for the most part work well together despite occasional differences (such as the friction between Alaric and Arilan), in this AU Kelson's supporters appear to have some factions that could end up being a weakness Charissa could exploit. Or even if she doesn't, I think Kelson could find himself in a game of tug-of-war between two or more supporting factions, each trying to convince the King that their (conflicting) advice is the best.

Exactly this Evie.  And, as I think we get possible hints of in the last chapter, Kelson cannot afford to be as ruthless as Charissa.  Though I did only say bits of 4, so probably degenerate into chaos was overstating it.
And of course in AU option 3 isn't necessarily a disaster, Charissa isn't Ariella.

Thanks for that explanation and I do know that maturation comes later in boys. In medieval times how many survived to reach that point? But Kelson has always been described as mature far beyond his years so maybe he can handle it better than rethink. I have to admit I still don't think either side can achieve absolute victory. And there is stil the problem of Wencit and as someone else mentioned, Meara could decide this could be a good time to try to try to separate and be independent. Nothing but more problems.
But Charissa, even though I have grown to appreciate her more in this story, is ruthless. she did murder Brion. She didn't challenge him to a fair fight but killed with poison(meresha) and magic. She also wreaked a lot of destruction on Rhemuth when she left. If this does end end with a division of Gwynedd into two, I don't think I would want to live in her part. Guess we'll have to see what Dr M has in mind. Would hate to Dec Gwynedd dismantled and lost.

Quote from: DerynifanK on September 22, 2024, 03:13:15 PMThanks for that explanation and I do know that maturation comes later in boys. In medieval times how many survived to reach that point?

If you lived past early childhood (newborn to five years old), you stood a pretty good chance of living a decently long life span, at least well into your fifties or sixties, though that was also barring having the bad luck of dying in some accident or from one of many diseases that there was no cure for at the time. Also, a woman had a greater chance of dying in her pre-menopausal years than a man of the same age because  of the hazards of going through childbirth, but once past menopause, she stood a greater chance than a man of surviving longer into old age because a man getting into his senior years is more prone to work injuries, plus as everyone moves into their senior years, there is greater susceptibility to illnesses also just as in the newborn-to-five age range. You sometimes read about "average age of death" back then being in the mid-30s or thereabouts, but that was because there was such a high rate of infant and early childhood mortality as well as young women dying of complications in childbirth that it skews the overall average downward. It didn't mean that 35 was "old age" back then (although people who don't understand what an average is have often argued this), just that there were a lot more hazards in the way of getting to that age, much less past it. Also, those who didn't have to do hard manual labor and who had access to decent (for the time) medical care and nutrition tended to live longer. IIRC, for example, Eleanor of Aquitaine and Hildegard von Bingen both made it to their early 80s.

QuoteBut Charissa, even though I have grown to appreciate her more in this story, is ruthless. she did murder Brion. She didn't challenge him to a fair fight but killed with poison(meresha) and magic.

Very true. Though Kelson could be almost equally ruthless, especially when he let his anger get the best of him and wasn't open to listening to his advisors. *coughTalacaracough*  At least once he calmed down, he was more open to owning his mistakes and resolving to learn from them, but one could hardly claim he's not ruthless on occasion.

I've been reading both about the Hundred Years War and the Peloponnesian War, and...once wars start, once the ice starts breaking, you get nothing but problems all around-- new problems no one ever thought of. Major players find themselves drawn into their allies' problems, new issues appear out of nowhere, outsiders try to feather their own nests.

World War I shakes its head and says, "Pikers".

I think it's fair to say that Kelson still can't claim to have had worse teenage years than Charissa.

It's hard to dispute her reasons for refusing to marry Wencit when he was looking for a new queen. She'd been through quite enough as a result of the House of Furstan.

Quote from: drakensis on September 23, 2024, 12:48:14 PMI think it's fair to say that Kelson still can't claim to have had worse teenage years than Charissa.

It's hard to dispute her reasons for refusing to marry Wencit when he was looking for a new queen. She'd been through quite enough as a result of the House of Furstan.

In my timeline, Charissa points out that ever since her father was killed and she was eleven, people (from Beldour and probably Rhemuth) had been coming to kill her-- or to marry her, which she may see as worse. Her own attitude is in her name-- she refuses to use "Furstan" and insists on "Festil".

I don't remember all the details of Brion's fight with the Marluk, Charissa's father, but I'm sure from her perspective it was not a fair fight.

Quote from: revanne on September 24, 2024, 08:17:41 AMI don't remember all the details of Brion's fight with the Marluk, Charissa's father, but I'm sure from her perspective it was not a fair fight.

I agree. For a girl of eleven, watching her much-loved father die in a duel-arcane or a sword fight would *never* be seen as watching anything fair.

Swords Against the Marluk v. 2.0 for Windows is chapter 46 of The King's Deryni. It started with Brion starting a cavalry charge on the short end of 2-1 odds against the Tolan forces. Brion shouts "Stella!" "Gwernach!", the Marluk rides over, slashy slashy, let's take a break 'cause we're both pooped, talky talky, Brion starts the procedure for the duel arcane, Thunderdome forms, two men enter, one man leaves. Interestingly, it says that more Gwynneddians were alive than Tolanders, and most living Tolanarians were wounded -- dunno how that happened.

So if Charissa thought it was unfair, she can eat a bag of go tell the Marines.

The Festillic Pretenders' claims have always been rather shaky.

"You took our kingdom away from us!"
"Our claim is better by Festil being a descendant of Aidan Haldane, Ifor was only descended from Aidan's younger brother Llarik!"
"Cinhil Haldane was a priest who forswore his oaths to become king!"


I have some notes at some point for an AU, perhaps another Nothing Was As It Should Be, where Charissa's older sister Clarissa survives and is rather unconvinced by the Festillic cause that Wencit is trying to convince Hogan of, only finally (and grudgingly) persuaded by the arguement that "We'll stop them burning Deryni at the stake."