I hope this is in the right forum section for this question. If this topic already exists, I didn't find it during all my poking around, and I tried to poke most thoroughly. :)
Who is your favorite character (or characters) in the Deryni Series, and why?
I was first introduced to the books when I was in either my very late teens or early 20s, and am now re-reading all of the Kelson books and the Childe Morgan series. (I haven't managed to get my hands on the Camber books again, unfortunately.) I'm finding that some of my preferences have shifted, now that I'm a couple of decades older. Former favorites are still favorites, though in some cases characters I hardly gave a second thought to are now much more interesting to me. I suspect it's a generational/experiential thing.
Duncan McLain is, first and foremost, my top choice. Twenty years ago, he was running pretty much even with Morgan, but I'm finding now that while I still admire Morgan a great deal, Duncan has taken a strong lead. What is it about Duncan that captures my attention and has held it for two decades? Well, for one thing, he's one of those rare fictional (alas! :D) portraits of a man of strong faith who isn't painted as a wuss and/or a raging hypocrite! He is a man of action rather than passivity, cautious yet courageous, firm in his faith yet doesn't come across as judgmental, bold enough to do the right thing even if it's the harder path to take, yet generally prudent enough not to take unnecessary risks. (One could quibble on that last point; his spontaneous disclosure of his own Deryniness during Dhugal's knighting might arguably be considered an unnecessary risk, but I think for the sake of Duncan's conscience it was necessary for him to reveal himself, at least at some point.) Unlike Alaric, he doesn't posture (the "bad boy in black" image quite endeared me to Morgan when I was younger, but now I think Cardiel--was it Cardiel?--was right to call him on it, since it was hardly doing the public's perception of Deryni any good). In DC, I think it was, we see that women are attracted to Duncan, but he never once takes advantage of that, even though it can't be easy to be young, sought-after, and celibate. He's a man of honor and integrity, and while he has the occasional lapse (his killing in anger of the Torenthi hostage during the face-off with Wencit comes to mind), it only serves to underscore his humanity. (After what Wencit did to the men of Cassan and Kierney and to Duke Jared, I'm pretty sure even a saint would've blown a gasket!) He's far more than just a handsome, heroic man; he's in some ways become a role model for me.
My other favorites, not in any particular order, have always been Morgan, Kelson, and Dhugal. Though in this re-reading, Nigel, Arilan and Cardiel are also edging their way onto my list. Arilan in particular surprises me, since my impression of him the first go-round was largely negative. But now--and again, I suspect this is because I'm an older reader--I often find myself nodding at his words of caution, irascibly phrased though they might be. (And I'll admit to a secret love of curmudgeons anyway. :D )
And drat KKB, but I'm finding myself more and more intrigued by Torenth, and in extreme like with Matyas. Not enough so to cast my loyalties to Gwynedd aside, but I'd dearly love a boat tour sometime....
It will come as no surprise to most people on here to know that my heart belongs to Alaric and has done since I was 19. Originally it was the devil-may-care attitude that appealed, as I guess is the case with most people. I've heard people say that they don't like Alaric because he is "too perfect". I don't see that at all as we see more than one flash of arrogance - usual in a person who has known he was of high rank since the day he was born, maybe. He can be almost overwhelmingly stupid (or maybe arrogant again) as when he turns his back on Ian and that nearly costs him big time.
The turning point for me is at the end of Checkmate where Alaric is close to breaking imho. He has finally come to hate himself and what he is. The scene at the end of DC took on a new significance for me when I read ITKS. As Alaric sits by his mother's tomb he must be aware that she too lost a sister because of her Deryniness, that she too was excommunicated (if he ever found that out) and that she too lost her parents way too young. I think he realises at that point that he has to make an effort too, not just hit people with "this is what I am, accept it or tough luck". So although Richenda is a BIG influence I think the change starts earlier. I think what I'm saying is that I like Alaric because he is flawed rather than because he is perfect.
In the Kelson era books I do also like Duncan, but I think my favourite other character in those books is Nigel. I love what we learn about his relationship with Meraude. I love his unquestioning loyalty to his brother and his brother's son, and I have a feeling Nigel and Meraude have been good friends to Alaric along the way.
I too was interested in Matyas, and I think there will be some fosterings going on there - I can see Kelric and Matyas's son having a different upbringing to their fathers.
In the Camber era I'm a bit of an oddity as I'm not in the Rhys/Evaine camp. I like good old straight-down-the-line, know what you get, Joram. I'm not religious, so I liked the warrior priest aspect, but otherwise I can't honestly pin down why I like him, he just talks to me, somehow. He's not attractive in the Alaric sort of way, but I like him, I dunno?
Both my main faves take St Michael's quarter - not sure if there is any significance to that.
Quote from: AnnieUK on June 11, 2010, 02:59:52 PM
I think what I'm saying is that I like Alaric because he is flawed rather than because he is perfect.
...
I too was interested in Matyas, and I think there will be some fosterings going on there - I can see Kelric and Matyas's son having a different upbringing to their fathers.
I have always liked Alaric too, and for exactly the reasons you say,
AnnieUK. He is a good person, though he definitely isn't perfect. But there two other aspects you haven't mentioned. Firstly, his own self-doubts about his powers, and his sense of being somehow less than 'real' Deryni. In many ways he doesn't seem to recognise just what he has achieved, even though he rediscovered the Healing power. Of course, those self-doubts are fostered by the old 'pure' Deryni such as we see with Arilan and other members of the old Council. You wonder too whether some of his arrogance has been brought about by the fact that he has not really been accepted into either world - half of him is too human for the Deryni, and his other half is feared /hated by all but a few humans for
being Deryni. Alaric Morgan has openly walked a very lonely and dangerous road for a long time ...
But the other aspect I find so attractive about the man is Alaric as a father. Aside from his love for Richenda, he adores his own children - love that scene in KKB when the King's party reaches Coroth and Briony races to welcome him! - but what really strikes me from the Kelson trilogy and KKB is his relationship with Brendan. At the start of TKL, Sofiana tells Kyri that one of the reasons she (Sofiana) will not condemn Morgan is the fact that he has taken Brendan as his own son. We never actually hear Brendan speak (why not? would love to know if he calls Alaric 'father'!) but there are all these little glimpses of their relationship. Brendan serving as Alaric's page on campaign in TKJ, and Alaric comforting him as the horse is put down; Alaric and Nigel as fathers discussing fledglings flying the nest in QFSC, with Alaric's casual reference to Brendan; Brendan grinning at Alaric on the way back from Desse in KKB, Alaric's cheerful endorsement of the dinner for Liam in Coroth, Brendan's bravery in the attack on Kelson; and so on. Brendan may be Richenda's son, but he is also the son of a man who betrayed Kelson, and Alaric himself was hardly on the best of terms with Bran. Step-relationships are never easy at the best of times, and the Bran/Richenda/Alaric situation was complex in the extreme. I get the impression that Brendan Coris will grow up to be a very fine young man, and this will be due in no small part to his stepfather.
And I too am fascinated by Count Matyas, who has been dragged into Torenthi politics much against his will but yet stands up as an honourable man for his king. I suspect he will become firm friends with Alaric, and I can certainly see Kelric and Matyas' son growing up with a different perspective on many things. There was also a passing remark in KKB when Alaric wonders about possible fostering for Brendan in Torenth, because of Brendan's friendship with Liam. Liam himself is only young, but I could easily see Alaric and Richenda agreeing to send Brendan to Count Matyas and his family. And of course, Brendan will inherit Marley, which has a border with Torenth.
I'm boring.
For Camber's time, my favorite character is Evaine, although Camber runs a close second. I love her strength and intelligence.
For Kelson's time, that's a tougher question. Probably Rothana, but Sofiana is good too, and I also love Richenda, if for no other reason than that she's a fit match for Morgan.
By the way, the reason we ask this very question when you join the board is just to make sure you're a real human being and not a spam bot. You could answer Symber (the cat from Catalyst) for all we care, just prove you're a person. :D
I've never thought of Alaric as perfect; in fact, that's one reason I really enjoy his character. If anything, it's possibly the most dimensional portrait of several in the series.
Speaking of Alaric and his relationship with Brendan, one of my favorite such moments comes when he's first introduced to the boy, in the battlefield pavilion, and is asked for a bedtime story. I can just imagine this longtime bachelor sitting there stymied at first, trying to dredge his mind for something that's not too bloody, bawdy, or boring for a small child's ears, while ever conscious that the woman of his dreams is standing nearby hearing every word. Gets a laugh from me every time, poor guy!
Sofiana is my favorite Camberian Council member, and one of my favorite female characters overall. I really wish I could find the Camber books again. I do recall Evaine being one of my favorites in that series (along with Joram), but it's been so long since I read that series, I've forgotten most of the stories now.
As for Nigel and Meraude, I'd really love to see a story about that courtship, especially given Oksana Ramsey's determined pursuit of the Haldane brothers in their youth! Something tells me that one major point in Meraude's favor would have been that, while Oksana dreamed of having a high rank and title and would have readily settled for Nigel if she couldn't get Brion, I imagine Meraude simply wanted Nigel for himself and no one else would have done...not even Brion.
Oh yes, Evie - I got that impression too about Meraude and Nigel. I think Meraude wears her status so well simply because she didn't desperately want that status. She wanted Nigel for himself. I'd certainly like to see more of her. Oksana struck me as a bit of a 'gold digger' - sort of like those ladies who were pursuing Alaric ;D
And I too loved that initial glimpse of Alaric and Brendan, although I suspect Alaric had had some experience with children, given he'd been so close to Kelson. The poor man seemed to manage quite well though, especially as Brendan innocently asked for a story about Bran.
I suspect part of why Alaric has bonded so easily with Brendan is that he identifies with the child. Brendan's Deryni lineage isn't widely known like Alaric's was, but he will still face a lot of the same issues over whether to use his talents openly etc. I think when Alaric checks him for shields in that bedtime story scene (which I also love btw) a small part of him thinks "poor little chap" when he finds them.
And I bet Brendan calls Alaric "papa" at least in private.
The "too perfect" comment came up in chat a couple of times and I didn't get it, but I didn't call the person who commented out on it at the time.
OK, y'all, no fair making me want to write an Alaric & Brendan story; I've already got my hands full with this new story I've started, and no time to finish it in, with my folks about to visit for a fortnight. I'll gladly settle for reading one. *folds hands and looks around expectantly* :D
I have bits of the Meraude/Nigel story so deeply imprinted in my brain already, it's hard for me to figure out what came out of KKB and what's derived solely from my imagination. (Or did I happen to find a Meraude/Nigel fanfic somewhere else?) It's just SO vivid that I feel like either I've already read it or else I need to write about it, but if it's the latter, then I don't have all the info I need to do so yet. (I don't own the Codex yet, and can't locate the print version of KKB, so to get the background details straight I'd have to get my hands on at least the former resource.) For instance, aside from remembering that there's a 6 or 7 year gap in Brion's and Nigel's ages, I don't know off the top of my head what year either Haldane married, how old Oksana was in relation to both, etc., all of which would have a bearing on the story. *sigh*
According to my Codex, Brion was born June 21 1081. Became king Nov 24 1095. Married Jehana Jan 6 1104. Kelson born Nov 14 1106.
Nigel born Feb 20 1087. Married Jun 7 1106.
Meraude born Aug 2 1090.
Oksana d'Enghieux born Jan 21 1080. Married Sir Jolyon Ramsay May 22 1102.
Told you already, I can't write to save my life, but I will quite happily sit here and suggest story ideas. 8)
Ooh, thanks!
Well, isn't that interesting? Looks like Oksana married two years before even Brion did, so it's not like she waited until all hope was completely lost before accepting Sir Jolyon's offer. Then again, she would've been in her early 20s when she finally settled on Jolyon, so if she'd been a lady-in-waiting since the age of--oh, 14?--and had been dangling herself in front of the Haldane brothers for years (almost certainly just Brion at first, given the age difference between him and Nigel, but after years of Brion showing no interest, a Haldane just entering young manhood would have started to look like more of a catch), by the time she got to her twenties, she'd probably be thinking "This is hopeless. I don't really want to marry that Nigel kid anyway, even if he IS a Haldane. All my friends are getting married, and here I am not getting any younger, so I might as well accept Jolyon's offer. At least he seems fairly manageable, and if I'm not getting my way, I can start flinging crockery...." :D
I can just imagine 14 year old Nigel, though. "Did that Oksana woman just make eyes at me? Really? That's the same gal who's been flinging herself at Brion for years, right? And now I'm supposed to be susceptible? Riiiiiight. Amazing, innit, how a coronet and a 14th birthday suddenly makes ass-kissers emerge from the woodwork? Thanks, but I think I'll pass. Besides, Saer's sister is closer to my own age, a lot more fun to show off for, and you know, she's a cute little kid. I wonder what she'll be like in a few years?"
I think this is what I love about this series - there is so much left untold that like minded (ahem, obsessed) individuals can speculate and suggest theories and give the characters a life of their own.
And all of us can sit here and gossip, and make up gossip, and make each other laugh all day long.
Speaking of gossip, I imagine there was quite a bit of that among Dowager Queen Richeldis' ladies as the young Haldanes were growing up, and lots of speculation (not to mention jockeying for favor!) about who they'd end up marrying. Which makes me realize, in thinking about Brion's and Nigel's younger years, that it would be good to know how long Richeldis remained in Gwynedd after Donal's death. Did she stay there until she died, or eventually return to her native Llannedd? Or did she remarry? She was much younger than Donal, enough so that she might have lived to see Kelson crowned, or possibly even married. Dang, I wish that Codex would get here! (It's been ordered and shipped, but isn't due to arrive until the end of the month.) I imagine, barring something tragic, that she would've at least stuck around until her eldest son's throne was fully secure, including him having an heir on the way.
And speaking of Richeldis and speculation, I know it's at least strongly implied that she never knew about Donal and Jessamy, much less Donal's later hopes of fathering another son on Alyce to serve as Brion's Deryni protector, but I keep thinking that it would be interesting to explore Richeldis' thoughts on the matter, if she ever even suspected Donal's infidelity, and what she'd think about his reasons for it. Because theirs does seem to have been a love match on both sides, despite Donal's rather ruthless methods for attempting to secure Brion's future hold upon his kingdom.
Not that I'm obsessed or anything.... Um, would someone like to come launder my guest bed sheets and mop my kitchen floor so I can get back to writing rather than spend the rest of my afternoon doing boring housework? Spinning stories is ever so much more fun.... ;) Though I suppose I'll just have to settle for going about my day pretending I'm one of the Rhemuth Castle chambermaids, not that I'm, oh, obsessed or anything.... *chortle* (The fact that I spent the entire day yesterday running around in the Current Middle Ages at an SCA event, and my medieval working clothes are hanging not 3 meters away coaxing me into putting them back on, isn't helping any!)
OK, off to try not to come up with any more story ideas in the next few hours, though I'll try to make a break in my schedule at chat time if I can. No promises. Depends on how soon I can bear to look in my daughter's room without throwing up my hands and shrieking, since that's where my parents will be sleeping for the next fortnight.... *sigh*
Sorry, not going to let you clean. At least not till I've told you this.
Codex says "On the 16th day of May in the year 1099 she [Richeldis] returned to Sirhowy in Howicce at the request of her young nephew, the new King Ronan IV, to act as chatelaine of his household, for he had neither wife nor children. She continued to maintain a household in Rhemuth, however, and returned there for extensive periods in later life, including the year 1105. The Lady Meraude served during this time in the household of the Queen. Richeldis died on the 4th day of February in the year 1118, aged 52 years, and was buried in the Royal Pyramid at Sirhowy."
So she died a bit more than two and a half years before the start of Deryni Rising.
There may be some interesting backstory to explore about the circumstances of Richeldis serving as her nephew's royal chatelaine, based on cross-referencing her personal entry with the king lists of Howicce and Llannedd. Her parents' marriages united the two countries; by the time of her marriage in 1080, her brother Illann had ascended (in 1071) as the first joint heir. But in 1099, her brother abdicated for some reason and left the throne to his first son Ronan. Presumably by this time, Ronan's mother was dead or indisposed, or she would've been the obvious choice as royal chatelaine instead of Richeldis.
Ronan died in 1119 and was succeeded by his brother Colman, who later became infamous for spurning Princess Janniver. Meanwhile, Richeldis' abdicated brother Illann had lived at least until 1109, when Princess Gwenlian was born as the only daughter of his second marriage.
If Prince Cuan is King Colman's first cousin and his presumptive heir to Howicce through the paternal line, then Cuan's father, Prince Cormac, must've been another sibling of Illann and Richeldis. Cuan was born in 1110; my brain cell is having trouble pinning down a birthdate window for Cormac.
(*mumble mumble* Cormac has to be a full sibling to Illann and Richeldis, whose mother outlived their father so he can't be the result of a second paternal marriage. Since Illann acceded in 1071 after their father's death, the latest possible date for Cormac's birth is 1072, making him at least 27 by the time of Illann's abdication. I wonder if he was still unmarried, married but childless, or married with children senior to Cuan who didn't survive.)
Quote from: AnnieUK on June 13, 2010, 02:23:29 PM
Sorry, not going to let you clean. At least not till I've told you this.
That's just evil, Annie. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :D
I'm glad Richeldis lived long enough to know most of her grandchildren, but sad she died fairly young. Though I suppose that's better than having her live to see Brion murdered and then Conall betray Kelson later on.
Re: Illann's abdication...now I'm wondering if there was some problem around the suitability of his second marriage which led to the abdication? (I.e., did he abdicate for love, as happened in the case of King Edward VIII of England when he wanted to marry Wallis Simpson, and for some reason he couldn't have the woman and keep his throne as well?) Though if that were the case, why not just have a morganatic marriage (I think that's the term?) and still designate his brother as heir, but retain the throne, as I think happened in at least one royal second marriage in England's history? Though maybe, in that case, that was possible because the King already had heirs produced from his first marriage, so they didn't care if he remarried as long as his second family didn't muddle up the line of succession?
And now I'm belatedly wondering who would've been serving as young, unmarried King Brion's chatelaine whenever Richeldis was off in Llannedd. Princess Xenia, perhaps? Surely Richeldis would've deputized someone for the position, otherwise she'd hardly have gone off so frequently to serve in that capacity in a nephew's Court, if her own son's Court needed a female presence to take over those queenly duties before Brion had a Queen of his own to take on those responsibilities. It would've been considered a good learning experience for Xenia, though, assuming she was old enough by then to take the responsibility on. (I don't think Princess Silke would've been old enough yet, would she?)
Annie-girl (or someone else with the Codex), would you happen to know Saer de Traherne's age relative to Brion's and Nigel's? Inquiring minds might have a need to know (has to do with a Meraude fanfic idea). His exact title would also be helpful. Thanks!
Saer Sighere Tirso de Traherne, Earl of Rhendall. Born July 22 1093. Eldest son and heir of Ewan III Earl of Rhendall and Mellicent Lady MacEwan. Came to court in 1105 as squire to Richard of Carthmoor. Succeeded his father Sept 19 1122.
And blast your eyes, Evie, that whole would Brendan call him papa thing has got me at it now!
No, no, you have to blame Alkari for that one. I'm all for Brendan calling Alaric "Lord High Poobah." At least I hope you're referring to Alaric. If Brendan is going around calling Saer "papa", Richenda's got a whole lot of 'xplaining to do! ;)
(Just kidding, of course! About the 'Lord High Poobah', anyway. :D)
So, Saer is three years younger, not older, than Meraude? Hm. OK, the scene playing in my head won't quite work, then. But never mind, I'm sure some variation on the theme will come to me eventually.
Illann's second marriage definitely wasn't morganatic-- the resulting daughter, Princess Gwenlian, is the presumptive heiress to Llannedd if her half-brother Colman never finds another bride to replace Janniver. If you recall from KKB, the planned marriage of Gwenlian to their cousin, Prince Cuan, would pre-emptively prevent the united kingdoms of Howicce and Llannedd from splitting up again due to different inheritance laws.
...though Gwenlian and Cuan still haven't gotten married as of 1130, if the omission of such info from Codex 2 is significant. I hope they're not waiting for Colman to drop dead first-- still no marriage listed for him either; he's 16 years older than Gwenlian, but she might still have her own problems securing the succession by the time Colman dies of old age. Caitrin of Meara must've had some serious ovarian juju to produce all three of Sicard's kids in her mid/late 40s.
Ooh yeaaah, that Gwenlian!
Caitrin's late fertility doesn't surprise me all that much, but then again, my grandmother was 50 (or very close to it) when my mother was born, and I don't think she fully went through menopause until several years after that. And my mother showed no signs of being menopausal or close to it when she had a hysterectomy at 50. And I'm 47....*checks to see if fertility time clock is set to go off yet* So there's probably some genetic component. Makes me wonder how many children Kelson and Sidana would've ended up with eventually, if she'd been married at 15 and fertile until 55 or 60.
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I got my Codex in the mail today! SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! ;D
*ahem!*
OK, we shall now return to our regularly scheduled discussion.
*attempts to look more dignified*
OK, I've written and posted that Nigel and Brion story I've been threatening, darn y'all! It's called Man-Trap. One guess as to who that title could be referring to. (Hint: It's NOT Meraude!) :D
Not quite as exciting, but I got my hardback copy of High Deryni in the post today. DH : "But you've already read it." Yes dear, and you have NO IDEA how many times. 8)
Camber is my favorite character. He helped to end Festillic rule and to restore the Haldanes to power. All the discoveries he made, as Alister Cullen, as bishop of Grecotha helped to restore some of the Deryni heritage after Festil I overthrew Ifor in 822.
I'm curious to learn how he figured out how Ariella failed with the death-defying spell at Iomaire in 905 and how he managed to succeed (to a certain degree) when he was struck down in 917. Is he able to sometimes take physical form or whatever? And how Evaine bolstered his spell by giving up her life.