Pawns and Queens--A 15th Century Gwynedd Story--Chapter Twenty-Four

[revanne]

I'll bet there was still confusion when the Queen was mentioned though.

I still find myself perplexed when the news mentions that the Queen has done something or been somewhere. I have to shake myself mentally and remind myself tbat they are not talking ghostly apparitions.

Uthyr had been King, and Soraya Queen, for a long time, though admittedly not 70 years.

[JudithR]

I'll admit to having thought,initially, that the Queen was Soraya and then realising it wasn't.  I'm with Revanne in first thinking that the Queen is EIIR and having to shake myself.  Similarly, the Duke of Edinburgh.

[Evie]

I'll bet there was still confusion when the Queen was mentioned though.

I still find myself perplexed when the news mentions that the Queen has done something or been somewhere. I have to shake myself mentally and remind myself tbat they are not talking ghostly apparitions.

Uthyr had been King, and Soraya Queen, for a long time, though admittedly not 70 years.

I'll admit to having thought,initially, that the Queen was Soraya and then realising it wasn't.  I'm with Revanne in first thinking that the Queen is EIIR and having to shake myself.  Similarly, the Duke of Edinburgh.

What makes this confusion funny for me is that of course you would have trouble thinking of anyone else except QIIE as "the Queen," because you spent nearly your entire lives under her reign. But this story begins immediately after King Uthyr's death, which means Alixa has been the Queen for the entirety of this story, even if she is just coming to realize that when we first meet her in Chapter One. But that means Soraya has also been the Dowager Queen for the entire story, yet possibly because she is the older queen and presents herself as one from the very beginning, your minds seem to have latched on to her as "the Queen" nonetheless. So I think, given QIIE's 70 year reign, you've also internalized the expectation that the matriarchal figure in the family must be the Queen. But even that is a little baffling given how long Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother was alive well into her daughters reign, so you'd think you'd be well accustomed to the notion of "the Queen is Cinhil's wife, since Cinhil is the sovereign, not Cinhil's mum," since I know there isn't similar confusion about who is King at this point in the story. 😂

[DerynifanK]

Actually Soraya must have known about Mellie and the girls since she told Catalina about the chest of Elisa's old clothes including some in children's sizes for them.

Alixa was the one who made Catalina aware of those. The evacuation would have happened after Soraya went to bed, and the next morning Catalina would have been much more likely to ask Alixa than Soraya for help with finding children's clothing, since Alixa would be more likely to be sympathetic or at least neutral, while Catalina would not have been as sure if Soraya would react well or badly to Mellie being brought to Rhemuth, even though she has accepted Balian now.

Remember, at this particular time, when Catalina tells Mellie that the Queen told her about the clothing in the chest having belonged to Elisa, "The Queen" is now Alixa. Soraya is the Dowager Queen (as Uthyr's widow) or the Queen Mother (as Cinhil's mother). And just to add to the potential confusion, once Colin becomes King, Catalina would then become the Queen, Alixa would become another Dowager Queen, and Soraya could still rightfully be called either a Dowager Queen or the Queen Mother (since she is Colin's mother as well), but at that point I would imagine she'd more commonly be called the Queen Mother to avoid confusing her with Dowager Queen Alixa.

Goodness, an embarrassment of queens in Gwynedd. That should make things interesting. All good people with good intentions but is Rhemuth Castle big enough for all?
I also keep wondering about Marthe, the sister left behind in Joux. What will happen to her, will she be rescued and join her sisters in Gwynedd? I guess that will depend on the outcome of the war and what happens to Renier and Remy. So many questions which certainly keep your readers coming back.

[Evie]

Goodness, an embarrassment of queens in Gwynedd. That should make things interesting. All good people with good intentions but is Rhemuth Castle big enough for all?
I also keep wondering about Marthe, the sister left behind in Joux. What will happen to her, will she be rescued and join her sisters in Gwynedd? I guess that will depend on the outcome of the war and what happens to Renier and Remy. So many questions which certainly keep your readers coming back.

Yup, thats a lot of queens to be hanging around at the same time, though fortunately Catalina and Alixa get along well, and Alixa is all too aware that her days as Queen of Gwynedd are numbered. As long as Soraya can keep in mind that the current King's consort (whoever that might be at the time) outranks her, things should hopefully go fairly smoothly. And I think enough time has passed that Soraya has figured out her place in the new order of precedence, and is well placed to be a supportive presence and a voice of experience rather than a hindrance to either of her daughters-in-law. After all, not being Queen of Gwynedd anymore does have a few advantages. Sometimes it is easier to find time to relax and pursue personal interests when not always in the limelight, at least when there isn't a war going on, and it's unlikely the war will go on forever. And they also have Eirian House, so once things get back to normal, that would be a logical place for Soraya to retire to if she should decide to live elsewhere, or she would also have dower lands she could move to if she wants to. Uthyr would have provided well for her in their betrothal contract.

You will be seeing Marthe again, don't worry. Or maybe do worry, since that poor kid is still at her father's court in Joux. But at least Remy isn't there also, so if there's a silver lining to that situation, it's that.

[JudithR]

I'll bet there was still confusion when the Queen was mentioned though.

I still find myself perplexed when the news mentions that the Queen has done something or been somewhere. I have to shake myself mentally and remind myself tbat they are not talking ghostly apparitions.

Uthyr had been King, and Soraya Queen, for a long time, though admittedly not 70 years.

I'll admit to having thought,initially, that the Queen was Soraya and then realising it wasn't.  I'm with Revanne in first thinking that the Queen is EIIR and having to shake myself.  Similarly, the Duke of Edinburgh.

What makes this confusion funny for me is that of course you would have trouble thinking of anyone else except QIIE as "the Queen," because you spent nearly your entire lives under her reign. But this story begins immediately after King Uthyr's death, which means Alixa has been the Queen for the entirety of this story, even if she is just coming to realize that when we first meet her in Chapter One. But that means Soraya has also been the Dowager Queen for the entire story, yet possibly because she is the older queen and presents herself as one from the very beginning, your minds seem to have latched on to her as "the Queen" nonetheless. So I think, given QIIE's 70 year reign, you've also internalized the expectation that the matriarchal figure in the family must be the Queen. But even that is a little baffling given how long Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother was alive well into her daughters reign, so you'd think you'd be well accustomed to the notion of "the Queen is Cinhil's wife, since Cinhil is the sovereign, not Cinhil's mum," since I know there isn't similar confusion about who is King at this point in the story. 😂

Thanks for your comments - they have made me think.

Actually, I thought Soraya because she'd brought the tunics for Balian - my mistake. 

When QEII ascended to the throne, I was three (same age to within a couple of weeks as CIIR), and remember nothing much until the Coronation which we watched on a neighbour's TV, having just recovered from the Whooping Cough which was epidemic that year.

Queen Mary (consort of GVR) was still alive at that point - she died in March the next year.  QETQM was a couple of years younger than one grandmother and a decade younger than the other, so I didn't really think of her as anything but an "old lady".  She did appear at various things, often in Scotland, and was CinC of in the region of ten battalions including The Black Watch and the RAMC, but other than Remembrance Sunday and The Trooping of the Colour, unless one was a Royal "fan" didn't often cross ones consciousness.  She did have a rep of liking the horses and gin (plus dubonnet waste - of good gin). All I remember of her 100th was a suggestion that to mark it every adult should be given a bottle of gin!
 
The Queen Mother Gate at Hyde Park is lovely - much better than some memorials.  I'll try and find a picture.

I think it's taken so long with C&C because he's never been a really dynamic presence in public and the bets were on that EIIR would outlive him though for several years every time we sang the National Anthem someone would say "This may be the last time it's "God Save the Queen"".


It doesn't help that prayer books, coins, notes etc are mostly still EIIR.  I do have a CIIR Book of Common Prayer - the edition with the mistakes.

Many thanks again for your comments

[drakensis]

To be fair, Soraya has had trouble remembering she's no longer the queen, never mind the rest of us.

[Evie]

To be fair, Soraya has had trouble remembering she's no longer the queen, never mind the rest of us.

😂😂😂

[Shiral]

I hope that Marthe can get her hands on some more Pennyroyal for her father's morning ale, one of these days...Glad we'll see more of her. I hope her living arrangements will be more with her sisters in Gwynedd, rather than with her male relatives in Joux. And I hope Renier will have a nasty end...

[Demercia]

I'll bet there was still confusion when the Queen was mentioned though.

I still find myself perplexed when the news mentions that the Queen has done something or been somewhere. I have to shake myself mentally and remind myself tbat they are not talking ghostly apparitions.

Uthyr had been King, and Soraya Queen, for a long time, though admittedly not 70 years.

I'll admit to having thought,initially, that the Queen was Soraya and then realising it wasn't.  I'm with Revanne in first thinking that the Queen is EIIR and having to shake myself.  Similarly, the Duke of Edinburgh.

What makes this confusion funny for me is that of course you would have trouble thinking of anyone else except QIIE as "the Queen," because you spent nearly your entire lives under her reign. But this story begins immediately after King Uthyr's death, which means Alixa has been the Queen for the entirety of this story, even if she is just coming to realize that when we first meet her in Chapter One. But that means Soraya has also been the Dowager Queen for the entire story, yet possibly because she is the older queen and presents herself as one from the very beginning, your minds seem to have latched on to her as "the Queen" nonetheless. So I think, given QIIE's 70 year reign, you've also internalized the expectation that the matriarchal figure in the family must be the Queen. But even that is a little baffling given how long Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother was alive well into her daughters reign, so you'd think you'd be well accustomed to the notion of "the Queen is Cinhil's wife, since Cinhil is the sovereign, not Cinhil's mum," since I know there isn't similar confusion about who is King at this point in the story. 😂

Thanks for your comments - they have made me think.

Actually, I thought Soraya because she'd brought the tunics for Balian - my mistake. 

When QEII ascended to the throne, I was three (same age to within a couple of weeks as CIIR), and remember nothing much until the Coronation which we watched on a neighbour's TV, having just recovered from the Whooping Cough which was epidemic that year.

Queen Mary (consort of GVR) was still alive at that point - she died in March the next year.  QETQM was a couple of years younger than one grandmother and a decade younger than the other, so I didn't really think of her as anything but an "old lady".  She did appear at various things, often in Scotland, and was CinC of in the region of ten battalions including The Black Watch and the RAMC, but other than Remembrance Sunday and The Trooping of the Colour, unless one was a Royal "fan" didn't often cross ones consciousness.  She did have a rep of liking the horses and gin (plus dubonnet waste - of good gin). All I remember of her 100th was a suggestion that to mark it every adult should be given a bottle of gin!
 
The Queen Mother Gate at Hyde Park is lovely - much better than some memorials.  I'll try and find a picture.

I think it's taken so long with C&C because he's never been a really dynamic presence in public and the bets were on that EIIR would outlive him though for several years every time we sang the National Anthem someone would say "This may be the last time it's "God Save the Queen"".


It doesn't help that prayer books, coins, notes etc are mostly still EIIR.  I do have a CIIR Book of Common Prayer - the edition with the mistakes.

Many thanks again for your comments
Yes I've got the one with the mistakes too.  Great isn't it!

[Demercia]

Sorry the comment about having a copy with mistakes too is mine, I didn't manage quoting properly

[Demercia]

Sorry the comment about having a copy with mistakes too is mine, I didn't manage quoting properly

[JudithR]

I have just noticed that I've been referring to CIIR not CIIIR- oops.  Why he missed the chance to reign as King Arthur...

[DerynifanK]

I hope that Marthe can get her hands on some more Pennyroyal for her father's morning ale, one of these days...Glad we'll see more of her. I hope her living arrangements will be more with her sisters in Gwynedd, rather than with her male relatives in Joux. And I hope Renier will have a nasty end...

And the same wish for Remy who is a really nasty piece of work.

[revanne]

I have just noticed that I've been referring to CIIR not CIIIR- oops.  Why he missed the chance to reign as King Arthur...

As long as it's not CIR